The Triumph of the Immaculate Heart by 2017?

[maso]

Let me candidly admit that at one time I briefly flirted with the  sedevacantist temptation. I rejected this temptation because I realized  that if there had been no true Pope since Pius XII, Our Lady's  promises, dependant as they are on the collegial consecration of Russia  to her Immaculate Heart, would be incapable of fulfillment. You cannot  hold both the reality of the apparition and message of Our Lady of  Fatima, and the sedevacantist (non)solution to the Church's crisis. It  is one or the other.

[/QUOTE]
  I fully agree with you Gabriel . That's a wise & unanswerable reasoning.
  There was already a discussion about Card. Siri's resignation. Nobody  could ever demonstrate what truly happened. I cannot imagine which  pressure was taken on Card. Siri to make him resign (if he did) and  moreover why no cardinal ever would have protested or shed light on a  plot.
 

[Josaphat]

This prophecy is more likely fulfilled by the modernist trick of placing theological speculation side by side with dogmatic definitions of the Faith, not distinguishing them as such, and then using speculation to make dogma meaningless. This has been done above all with the thrice-defined dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

In any event, the prophetic part of this prayer cannot be used to bolster the sedevacantist cause. We know from the words of the Lord and the definition of the First Vatican Council that "the blessed Peter has perpetual successors in the primacy over the universal Church."

Let me candidly admit that at one time I briefly flirted with the sedevacantist temptation. I rejected this temptation because I realized that if there had been no true Pope since Pius XII, Our Lady's promises, dependant as they are on the collegial consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart, would be incapable of fulfillment. You cannot hold both the reality of the apparition and message of Our Lady of Fatima, and the sedevacantist (non)solution to the Church's crisis. It is one or the other.

I am not trying to bolster the sedevacantist cause. I am not a sedevacantist in the normal sense. I recognize the True Papacy of Pope Gregory XVII ('Cardinal' Siri). The See of Peter WAS NOT VACANT since 1958, rather, Siri remained True Vicar of Christ on Earth until his death in 1989. Upon his death, the Cardinals that he appointed in exile elected a successor. There are true cardinals in exile at this very moment. When the time comes for the restoration of the Church, they will elect the next pope.

See this site:

www.popeinred.com

[Gabriel]

Josaphat,

I combed through the "Pope in Red" website very thoroughly.

The Siri Thesis crumbles, so far as Fatima is concerned, in that Sister Lucy, who of all people would know, recognized John XXIII through John Paul II inclusive as the lawful Roman Pontiff, even though they treated her shamefully. She never doubted that if any of those Popes would do what Our Lady asked - and none of them did - then what she promised would have been performed.

I think a discussion of the Siri Thesis might be profitable on a separate thread, if the webmaster permits.

[ancientpapacy]

This prophecy is more likely fulfilled by the modernist trick of placing theological speculation side by side with dogmatic definitions of the Faith, not distinguishing them as such, and then using speculation to make dogma meaningless. This has been done above all with the thrice-defined dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

In any event, the prophetic part of this prayer cannot be used to bolster the sedevacantist cause. We know from the words of the Lord and the definition of the First Vatican Council that "the blessed Peter has perpetual successors in the primacy over the universal Church."

Let me candidly admit that at one time I briefly flirted with the sedevacantist temptation. I rejected this temptation because I realized that if there had been no true Pope since Pius XII, Our Lady's promises, dependant as they are on the collegial consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart, would be incapable of fulfillment. You cannot hold both the reality of the apparition and message of Our Lady of Fatima, and the sedevacantist (non)solution to the Church's crisis. It is one or the other.

I am not trying to bolster the sedevacantist cause. I am not a sedevacantist in the normal sense. I recognize the True Papacy of Pope Gregory XVII ('Cardinal' Siri). The See of Peter WAS NOT VACANT since 1958, rather, Siri remained True Vicar of Christ on Earth until his death in 1989. Upon his death, the Cardinals that he appointed in exile elected a successor. There are true cardinals in exile at this very moment. When the time comes for the restoration of the Church, they will elect the next pope.

See this site:

www.popeinred.com

I hate to break any hearts here, but I corresponded with Cardinal Siri in the eighties and he affirmed the orthodoxy of the new mass: ortodoxae (sic) fidei, was the phrase he used.

I should have kept the letters, but little did I know he'd be promoted posthumously, in some minds at least, to the papacy.

[ancientpapacy]

Just to make things easier for those who would like to see the original exorcism prayer to Saint Michael by Leo XIII:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/exorcism.htm

Its interesting that you mention the ORIGINAL Saint Michael's prayer. Pay close attention to this part of the prayer:


"Where the See of the Blessed Peter and the Chair of Truth have been set up for the light of the gentiles, there they have placed the throne of the abomination of their wickedness, so that, the Pastor having been struck, they may also be able to scatter the flock."

Sounds a lot like what happened to Cardinla Siri when he was elected to be Vicar of Christ on Earth on the fourth ballot at the conclave of October 26, 1958 at 6pm, and then forced to 'resign,' to make way for 'Blessed' John XXIII.

I have one question for Josaphat, and I promise not to polemicize against the answer. From what priests does your conscience allow you to receive the sacraments? Can you receive them from any of the 'official' Ruthenian or Ukrainian clergy? Are there any Sirists of your rite, or are you now dependent on the Latins who follow the Siri theory?

[QuisUtDeus]

I think a discussion of the Siri Thesis might be profitable on a separate thread, if the webmaster permits.

Too much has been said already.

We can't have a discussion for the simple reason that Vox and I won't have people stating that those who have been Popes in the Vatican are not Popes whether it is the single election of Cdl. Siri or every Pope from St. Pius X on.

If everyone can say, "The Siri Thesis is wrong" and the ones that hold to this thesis are not allowed to counterargue then there wouldn't be much of a discussion anyhow.

I know people are chomping at the bit to discuss things like this, but it's not going to happen here.  Maybe you guys can set up a Yahoo group or something for that.  They're free and those who are interested can join up.

http://groups.yahoo.com

So, I'm going to lock this thread and leave you guys with that suggestion.

Certainly, feel free to make a post inviting people if anyone sets up a sede-vs-non-sede Yahoo discussion group or something.  That's perfectly fine.