A Question for FSSPers...

[Tradglad]

How would anyone know whether the prayers for the Holy Father or local bishop are included in the Traditional Latin Mass since the Canon is prayed silently?

For all we know, the priest could be saying, "Bread thou art and bread thou shalt remain" and we'd be none the wiser.

I suppose using your logic..who knows what the priest says...so tell me..you like the Novos ordo?

[Neri]

Just an aside, there are some circumstances in which you don't actually HAVE to mention the local bishop in the Canon. The  ..una cum Antistite nostro N. et omnibus orthodoxis... Can actually be taken to mean a local, religious, major superior such as an Abbot. If memory serves there is actually a provision for it in the old Missale Cisterciensae, the pre -VC Cistercian Missal. As far as I know that should apply for all other abbots as well, maybe even for some priors. Does anyone know what the Dominican Missal says on this point?    

[MagisterMusicae]

Just an aside, there are some circumstances in which you don't actually HAVE to mention the local bishop in the Canon. The  ..una cum Antistite nostro N. et omnibus orthodoxis... Can actually be taken to mean a local, religious, major superior such as an Abbot. If memory serves there is actually a provision for it in the old Missale Cisterciensae, the pre -VC Cistercian Missal. As far as I know that should apply for all other abbots as well, maybe even for some priors. Does anyone know what the Dominican Missal says on this point?    

That may be the case for the use of a Missal other than the Roman Missal. The Roman Missal does not provide any prayer for a superior other than the local Ordinary and Pope.

A religious order that uses the Roman Missal would not have this option.

I would imagine that the Order of Preachers' Missal (Dominican) is similar to the Roman. The Franciscan Missale Romano-Seriphicum is identical to the Roman Missal in this regard.

The Roman principle here is to recognize the Apostolic hierarchy, with whom a Catholic is one. If a superior is merely a priest (and not a bishop) he is not part of the Apostolic hierarchy, so it would seem contra-principle to include him.

[DrBombay]

How would anyone know whether the prayers for the Holy Father or local bishop are included in the Traditional Latin Mass since the Canon is prayed silently?

For all we know, the priest could be saying, "Bread thou art and bread thou shalt remain" and we'd be none the wiser.

I suppose using your logic..who knows what the priest says...so tell me..you like the Novos ordo?

Indeed.  Who does know what the priest says?   That's my whole point.  And the answer is, nobody knows except the priest and God.  Who knows how many devout traddys have gone to the Communion rail with the intention of receiving the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and instead received nothing but a piece of bread because the priest didn't say the words of institution correctly or at all? 

[StrictCatholicGirl]

One of my reasons for asking the question (obviously not the only one) was that another poster here at Fisheaters, on another forum, previously said she attended a local TLM and was "put off that the Pope and local bishop were not prayed for..." which led me to assume that the words of the Canon were said loud enough for it to be audible.

 

I'll admit I can't remember from my childhood.. but that would be no matter, as there was no crisis in the Church then and the Holy Father would definitely be included in the prayers.

 

- Lisa

[Tradglad]

How would anyone know whether the prayers for the Holy Father or local bishop are included in the Traditional Latin Mass since the Canon is prayed silently?

For all we know, the priest could be saying, "Bread thou art and bread thou shalt remain" and we'd be none the wiser.

I suppose using your logic..who knows what the priest says...so tell me..you like the Novos ordo?

I suppose, as the Faithful, We need to believe that a Traditional priest SSPX,FSSP,ICK ect) are doing what the Church asks of them to do. I would think if the Priest misses saying something or changes words that it would still be The Eucharist (?) and the faithful would not be in sin. I may have worded that incorrectly. Would there be any penalty upon the Faithful for an error or deception by a priest during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?

Indeed.  Who does know what the priest says?   That's my whole point.  And the answer is, nobody knows except the priest and God.  Who knows how many devout traddys have gone to the Communion rail with the intention of receiving the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and instead received nothing but a piece of bread because the priest didn't say the words of institution correctly or at all? 

[DrBombay]

There would certainly be a sin if a priest knowingly did such a thing, but never for the faithful.  I believe we are safe in assuming it rarely if ever happens nowadays.