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Author Topic: Actor (28) of homosexual movie dies due to drug overuse  (Read 2677 times)
Archbishop_10K
Guest
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2008, 04:28:PM »

Quote from: kullavan
"MAY HIS SOUL REST IN PEACE"

Are you kidding me?

All I can say is that what we all should hope for is that he died in a state of Grace. Otherwise, he is now in a world of hurt and in big trouble, the kind you cannot get out of.

What kind of a Catholic are you any way, "May his soul rest in peace"? That's only appropriate for someone who died in a state of grace and not in mortal sin. You know better than to even promote such rubbish!

And what kind of a Catholic are you to leave such a sh*tty witness to our divine Faith on the Internet for everyone in the world to see?

Dear God: May Heath Ledger's immortal soul rest in peace, if it's in Your will. Amen.
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QuisUtDeus
Guest
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2008, 04:35:PM »

What archbishop_10K said.

Rest in peace means in the Peace of Christ - it means we hope that they died in a state of sanctifying grace.

When a Catholic dies and Mass is said for him, there is no proof he died in a state of sanctifying grace.  We hope that he did, just as we hope that Heath Ledger and any other human being dies in a state of sanctifying grace.

Whether they were received into heaven or not, is the business of Christ alone.  We still pray for them.
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Mommie2Boys
Guest
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2008, 05:23:PM »

Thank you, A10K and Quis... I was so disgusted I didn't know how to express myself. You both put it beautifully.

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alaric
Lone Wolf
Member

Gender: Male
Posts: 6,975



« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2008, 05:30:PM »

Quote from: DrBombay

Quote from: kullavan
"MAY HIS SOUL REST IN PEACE"

Are you kidding me?

All I can say is that what we all should hope for is that he died in a state of Grace. Otherwise, he is now in a world of hurt and in big trouble, the kind you cannot get out of.

What kind of a Catholic are you any way, "May his soul rest in peace"? That's only appropriate for someone who died in a state of grace and not in mortal sin. You know better than to even promote such rubbish!

How do you know that he died in a state of mortal sin?  How do you know that he didn't have perfect contrition right before he died?

You don't.

Maybe he had last second contrition like the theif on the cross next to Christ....We don't know what state he was in,like the good Dr said,you don't either.

One thing's for sure,this kid was tormented by his own demons,only God knows what was in his heart,and only God knows who goes to hell.

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To defend oneself, one must also be ready to die. There is little such readiness in a society raised in the cult of material well-being. Nothing is left, then, but concessions, attempts to gain time, and betrayal.
--- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


"Wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it."
-St. Augustine Doctor of the Church

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell

There is no limit to investigating the truth; until you discover it.
- Cicero
HMiS
Member

Gender: Male
Posts: 6,172



« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2008, 05:43:PM »

Quote from: QuisUtDeus
What archbishop_10K said.

Rest in peace means in the Peace of Christ - it means we hope that they died in a state of sanctifying grace.

When a Catholic dies and Mass is said for him, there is no proof he died in a state of sanctifying grace.  We hope that he did, just as we hope that Heath Ledger and any other human being dies in a state of sanctifying grace.

Whether they were received into heaven or not, is the business of Christ alone.  We still pray for them.

Well, every human being has to consent out of free will to the call of grace, of course.

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„Ja, Ja, wie Gott es will. Gott lohne es Euch. Gott schütze das liebe Vaterland. Für Ihn weiterarbeiten... oh, Du lieber Heiland!” ("Yes, Yes, as God wills it. May God repay it to you. May God protect the dear fatherland. Go on working for him... oh, you dear Savior!") - Clemens August Cardinal von Galen, his last words.


HMiS
Member

Gender: Male
Posts: 6,172



« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2008, 06:02:PM »

Quote from: QuisUtDeus
What archbishop_10K said.

Rest in peace means in the Peace of Christ - it means we hope that they died in a state of sanctifying grace.

When a Catholic dies and Mass is said for him, there is no proof he died in a state of sanctifying grace.  We hope that he did, just as we hope that Heath Ledger and any other human being dies in a state of sanctifying grace.

Whether they were received into heaven or not, is the business of Christ alone.  We still pray for them.

Anyway, the Church can only judge the intention of humans as far as they are exterior. And only to those whose exterior way of life reflected they were Roman Catholics and acted accordingly and were not pertinacious in mortal sin, e.g. the right for a public Requiem Mass is granted and the full ecclesiastical burial.

Despite the Novus Ordo actions, in the past Catholics who would not come to Church at least during Easter or otherwise regularly, and were known to leave away without good reason for such a long time, were not granted a full ecclesiastical burial nor a public Requiem Mass. Sometimes they were not even granted the right to be buried in bless earth.

Objectively Heath Ledger's situation was exteriorily non-Catholic and not in the state of grace.

Just consider: he was found by a "masseuse", with apparently a suicidal dose of drugs consumed, he played in immoral movies, and did not attend Mass monthly or yearly, and he openly approved homosexuality publicly. This means exteriorily judging, his soul's state was not alright. Nor could he get a Church funeral.

In normal times. The Church and world situation is so despairing and collapsed - during his entire life: he was post-conciliar, maybe not raised Catholic, never saw the real Holy Mass - that he subjectively may very well be excused.

Only God knows where Heath is now. Pray for him, that God granted him grace before death. Enough grace to attain heaven, through (long) purgatory. God is the only Judge. And by God I mean Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Let's imitate Mel Gibson. He remained respectful, mourned his death, and did not say other details or theological exposés to the press.

To me, this death of Ledger - who was an "example" for so many young people of hedonistic Western living today - is tragic and points out to me the necessity of living in the state of sanctifying grace, the necessity of prayer, of contemplating that death is always near and luring, that Judgement is harsh, and that young people are not spared per se.

I experienced the same as the father of a colleague of mine passed away unexpectedly. 50 years old. No more, no less.

For me personally, I hope to live through the Third World War, persecutions (I am an apocalyptic nutball I know) and further humiliation of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, to see the (temporary) Restoration of Holy Church and the (relatively short, but glorious) worldwide Era of Peace and conversion of people to Jesus Christ, before the final appearance of the Antichrist person and the Final Battles. I never lived before the Council (well, the world was not ideal then), and I would like to see e.g. our own parish church in which I was baptized (validly at least, by an old Dominican priest) in the 1980s, to be restored (high altar reinstalled, communion rails) and used for true Roman Catholic worship again, for our town to be converted from current sin and the omnipresent sinful lifestyles etc. etc. Maybe I am hoping for to much, and I know I should only hope on Heaven, as the glory of contemplating God, the All and Always Being, surpasses all nice and spiritual experiences on the world of course. But still I hope I will live to see it, if it pleases God. Though, if one is an Apocalyptic nutball like me who tends to take seriously certain Catholic visionaries and shrines' apparitions, I know that in Europe maybe as much as 5/6 of the entire human population may die or be massacred.

Let's prepare ourselves for death always. Not in a depressive or pessimistic way. I face future too, think of a carreer, vocation (family or religious life?), girlfriends, think about studying, world politics, economy, my parents, quite banal things (birthdays, partying), work, sleeping, sports, health, etc. etc.

And I am convinced that one can only be really content, happy, loving, satisfied if one is prepared for death and enjoys every day and week one is given by God on earth. Despite death, chastisements, diseases, mourning etc. There is much good. Let's enjoy life too. By having peace of mind and soul, by disciplining our soul ánd body (trying to do the latter a bit more now), being nice to others, enjoying social contacts, enjoying travelling (as far as possible). We are still spoilt and given many nice pleasureful things in our lives. 

That is what I learn from this sad tragedy around the late Heath Ledger.

And please let us remember:
Beati mortui qui in Domino moriuntur.
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„Ja, Ja, wie Gott es will. Gott lohne es Euch. Gott schütze das liebe Vaterland. Für Ihn weiterarbeiten... oh, Du lieber Heiland!” ("Yes, Yes, as God wills it. May God repay it to you. May God protect the dear fatherland. Go on working for him... oh, you dear Savior!") - Clemens August Cardinal von Galen, his last words.
HailGilbert
Member

Posts: 2,686



« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2008, 12:07:AM »

Quote from: HMiS

Quote from: QuisUtDeus
What archbishop_10K said.

Rest in peace means in the Peace of Christ - it means we hope that they died in a state of sanctifying grace.

When a Catholic dies and Mass is said for him, there is no proof he died in a state of sanctifying grace.  We hope that he did, just as we hope that Heath Ledger and any other human being dies in a state of sanctifying grace.

Whether they were received into heaven or not, is the business of Christ alone.  We still pray for them.

Anyway, the Church can only judge the intention of humans as far as they are exterior. And only to those whose exterior way of life reflected they were Roman Catholics and acted accordingly and were not pertinacious in mortal sin, e.g. the right for a public Requiem Mass is granted and the full ecclesiastical burial.

Despite the Novus Ordo actions, in the past Catholics who would not come to Church at least during Easter or otherwise regularly, and were known to leave away without good reason for such a long time, were not granted a full ecclesiastical burial nor a public Requiem Mass. Sometimes they were not even granted the right to be buried in bless earth.

Objectively Heath Ledger's situation was exteriorly non-Catholic and not in the state of grace.

Just consider: he was found by a "masseuse", with apparently a suicidal dose of drugs consumed, he played in immoral movies, and did not attend Mass monthly or yearly, and he openly approved homosexuality publicly. This means exteriorily judging, his soul's state was not alright. Nor could he get a Church funeral.

In normal times. The Church and world situation is so despairing and collapsed - during his entire life: he was post-conciliar, maybe not raised Catholic, never saw the real Holy Mass - that he subjectively may very well be excused.

Only God knows where Heath is now. Pray for him, that God granted him grace before death. Enough grace to attain heaven, through (long) purgatory. God is the only Judge. And by God I mean Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Let's imitate Mel Gibson. He remained respectful, mourned his death, and did not say other details or theological exposés to the press.

To me, this death of Ledger - who was an "example" for so many young people of hedonistic Western living today - is tragic and points out to me the necessity of living in the state of sanctifying grace, the necessity of prayer, of contemplating that death is always near and luring, that Judgement is harsh, and that young people are not spared per se.

I experienced the same as the father of a colleague of mine passed away unexpectedly. 50 years old. No more, no less.

For me personally, I hope to live through the Third World War, persecutions (I am an apocalyptic nutball I know) and further humiliation of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, to see the (temporary) Restoration of Holy Church and the (relatively short, but glorious) worldwide Era of Peace and conversion of people to Jesus Christ, before the final appearance of the Antichrist person and the Final Battles. I never lived before the Council (well, the world was not ideal then), and I would like to see e.g. our own parish church in which I was baptized (validly at least, by an old Dominican priest) in the 1980s, to be restored (high altar reinstalled, communion rails) and used for true Roman Catholic worship again, for our town to be converted from current sin and the omnipresent sinful lifestyles etc. etc. Maybe I am hoping for to much, and I know I should only hope on Heaven, as the glory of contemplating God, the All and Always Being, surpasses all nice and spiritual experiences on the world of course. But still I hope I will live to see it, if it pleases God. Though, if one is an Apocalyptic nutball like me who tends to take seriously certain Catholic visionaries and shrines' apparitions, I know that in Europe maybe as much as 5/6 of the entire human population may die or be massacred.

Let's prepare ourselves for death always. Not in a depressive or pessimistic way. I face future too, think of a carreer, vocation (family or religious life?), girlfriends, think about studying, world politics, economy, my parents, quite banal things (birthdays, partying), work, sleeping, sports, health, etc. etc.

And I am convinced that one can only be really content, happy, loving, satisfied if one is prepared for death and enjoys every day and week one is given by God on earth. Despite death, chastisements, diseases, mourning etc. There is much good. Let's enjoy life too. By having peace of mind and soul, by disciplining our soul ánd body (trying to do the latter a bit more now), being nice to others, enjoying social contacts, enjoying travelling (as far as possible). We are still spoilt and given many nice pleasureful things in our lives.  

That is what I learn from this sad tragedy around the late Heath Ledger.

And please let us remember:
Beati mortui qui in Domino moriuntur.

In brief response to the above:

1) From what I understand, the masseuse in quotations was a licensed massage therapist. Not a prostitute under another name. She was the one who called the police and ambulance when she found Mr. Ledger's body.

2) Let me state this bluntly without being insulting. We have no idea whether Mr. Ledger was a Roman Catholic or no. We have no idea what his religious affiliation was. It is pure speculation by us at this point.

3) Mr. Ledger, by all the accounts of his family, friends, acquaintances and fellow actors was not the suicidal type. He was taking anti-anxiety medication, which is supposed to reduce the tendency to despair and worse. Since he was getting only two hours of sleep per night for a long while, such sleep deprivation can affect one's judgment in areas like medication. So from all the evidence I've read so far, his death was an accidental one, not intentional suicide.

4) As for preparing for death, but not in a depressive or pessimistic way, as you stated. For folks like myself, that is asking for the impossible - literally. To those like me, it is an "either/or" proposition, not a "both/and" proposition. Either we prepare for our personal death and the upcoming Great Chastisement and Three Days of Darkness in fear, dread and trembling -- or we not care about it at all and go about our merry way and in the State of Grace.

Not both/and. But either/or.

I am convinced that your conviction on this matter is dead wrong. And in Christian charity and concern, I fear for your soul because of this conviction. Not out of spite, for of my free will, I bear no ill will to you at all. But out of concern for your soul's eternal good do I say this.

That is all I can think of right now, as it is near my bedtime as I type this. thank you all for your time and patience. God speed you all.
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"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." - G. K. Chesterton
NathanSoc
Member

Posts: 684


« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2008, 01:29:AM »

While we're all reeling from the shock and in deep mourning for Heath's soul, I would like to point out that according to Wikipedia, these other "somebodies" also died unexpectedly and tragically on the same day as Heath Ledger.

Does anyone want to pray for their souls?

  • Dora Bria, 49, Brazilian six-time windsurfing champion, car accident
  • Billy Poole, 28, American extreme skier, skiing accident.
  • Milenko Zablaanski, 53, Serbian actor, car accident
  •  

    Then of course, there are the souls of the1,000s of "nobodies" whose names barely make the obituaries, let alone the headlines, who also have gone the same way on the same day...

    Fortunately for them, we know from our Lord's own example that the "nobodies"  remain very dear to His heart, even if no one else knows of their existence.
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    Evey
    Member

    Posts: 554


    « Reply #18 on: January 25, 2008, 01:38:AM »

    Thanks for the reality check NathanSoc... but (even if it is artificial) the familiarity we all had with Heath Ledger made his death seem such a sad waste, especially under those circumstances. But nobody is nameless to God and everyone is remembered, during the Mass.
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    Les grandes personnes ne comprennent jamais rien toutes seules, et c'est fatigant, pour les enfants, de toujours leur donner des explications.
    NathanSoc
    Member

    Posts: 684


    « Reply #19 on: January 25, 2008, 03:30:AM »

    Yes, you're quite right, Evey. I'm just feeling a little cranky so I hope no one takes it to be some scrambling for the moral high ground holier than thou rant.

    There has always been public mourning for loved public figures. It used to be people like kings, but they at least had a noblesse oblige to publicly be seen to be a Christian role model. A king, like a pope had a special relationship with God. With these celebrities there is none of that obligation or responsibility. Not even their sins are a cause for shame or condemnation. so I don't understand the outpouring of emotion or sense of some great loss over actors like Heath Ledger.
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