no Salvation outside the Church

[StrictCatholicGirl]

Further, can't the Church broaden her definition of what "Catholic Church" means?

...  to include what, per se?  

to include those connected to the Catholic Church in spirit, who would be a physical member of the Church if they knew she was their true Mother? Perhaps there are those who, on the last day, will be sheltered under her umbrella? Little fishing boats hooked to Peter's Barque? I'm asking...scratching my head... thinking out loud.. is all. 

- Lisa 

[Sonoman]

Little fishing boats hooked to Peter's Barque? I'm asking...scratching my head... thinking out loud.. is all. 

- Lisa 

An an obscure reference to the thread about the Redemptorists. If I can't be brilliant, at least I can be obscure.

[obscurus]

By Monsignor Joseph Clifford Fenton.

 WITHOUT doubt, one of the thorniest and most easily misunderstood doctrines of the Catholic Church is that of salvation. One immediately thinks of the many controversies concerning the difficult phrase, "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" - outside the Church there is no salvation." Though not concerned exclusively with this issue, The Catholic Church and Salvation is an important contribution to understanding it.

  Monsignor Fenton, well-known editor of The American Ecclesiastical Review, divides his work into two parts. In the first, he presents, comments upon and interprets the documents of the magisterium pertaining to the Catholic doctrine on salvation and the Church. In the second part, he analyzes the concept of salvation, and shows that the doctrine of salvation is determined by, and depends upon, the very nature of the Church. The last chapter is a historical inquiry into the origins of certain inadequate theological teachings in this matter.

  Because of the great importance of the questions under discussion, Monsignor Fenton's The Catholic Church and Salvation will be of great interest to theologians, apologists, missionaries, indeed, to all thinking Christians.

  190pp, hardcover with dust jacket, index.

         

[StrictCatholicGirl]

Little fishing boats hooked to Peter's Barque? I'm asking...scratching my head... thinking out loud.. is all. 

- Lisa 

An an obscure reference to the thread about the Redemptorists. If I can't be brilliant, at least I can be obscure.

 
Actually I made that reference on an earlier thread: "Eastern Orthodox vs. Traditional Catholic" on March 7th.. but I'm sure I'm not the first to use it. LOL
 
I'm not sure what the point is Tom.

Time for emoticons? 
 
- Lisa

[StrictCatholicGirl]

By Monsignor Joseph Clifford Fenton.

WITHOUT doubt, one of the thorniest and most easily misunderstood doctrines of the Catholic Church is that of salvation. One immediately thinks of the many controversies concerning the difficult phrase, "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" - outside the Church there is no salvation." Though not concerned exclusively with this issue, The Catholic Church and Salvation is an important contribution to understanding it.

Monsignor Fenton, well-known editor of The American Ecclesiastical Review, divides his work into two parts. In the first, he presents, comments upon and interprets the documents of the magisterium pertaining to the Catholic doctrine on salvation and the Church. In the second part, he analyzes the concept of salvation, and shows that the doctrine of salvation is determined by, and depends upon, the very nature of the Church. The last chapter is a historical inquiry into the origins of certain inadequate theological teachings in this matter.

Because of the great importance of the questions under discussion, Monsignor Fenton's The Catholic Church and Salvation will be of great interest to theologians, apologists, missionaries, indeed, to all thinking Christians.

190pp, hardcover with dust jacket, index.

 
Wonderful. I'd love to read this. This bit:
 
he presents, comments upon and interprets the documents of the magisterium pertaining to the Catholic doctrine on salvation and the Church. In the second part, he analyzes the concept of salvation, and shows that the doctrine of salvation is determined by, and depends upon, the very nature of the Church.
 
Now see, this is what I was always taught. I hope we're on the same page (mentally) regarding this. I hate to ask, what year was this book written and published? Just curious.

- Lisa 

[obscurus]

It was published in 1958. Keep in mind that Msgr. Fenton was also highly critical of Fr. John Courtney Murray, S.J. whose ideas gained much prominence during the Second Vatican Council.

[StRita]

For those of you who want the Traditional teaching on Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, I highly recommend reading this great work by Fr. Francois Laisney called Is Feeneyism Catholic?:

http://www.angeluspress.org/oscatalog/item/3093/is-feeneyism-catholic

am i the only Feeneyite on this entire site?

[Gabriel]

am i the only Feeneyite on this entire site?

No Rita, you're not. But why preach to those who refuse to listen? Cf. Matt. 7: 6.

Personally, I have found that getting caught up in endless arguments over the silly "three kinds of baptism" teaching is detrimental to my spiritual life.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism. Say it once or twice and be done with it. Those who will not let their yes be yes and their no be no will be manifested.

[StRita]

am i the only Feeneyite on this entire site?

No Rita, you're not. But why preach to those who refuse to listen? Cf. Matt. 7: 6.

Personally, I have found that getting caught up in endless arguments over the silly "three kinds of baptism" teaching is detrimental to my spiritual life.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism. Say it once or twice and be done with it. Those who will not let their yes be yes and their no be no will be manifested.

oh i concur.  and i hate that debate.  but it just appeared that everyone here was for the 3 kinds.  apparently i was wrong.  my bad.  but it is nice to meet someone on this side of the fence where the grass actually is greener.

[holdencaulfield]

I can already see where this is going. the post Vatican II Church doesn't teach  no Salvation outside the Church. Yes it does, the wording changed a little, big deal.

Further, can't the Church broaden her definition of what "Catholic Church" means? Does she not have the power and authority to keep redefining herself? To develop a deeper understanding of her mission?

- Lisa

Yes I agree, this is the problem many Protestants have with doctrines like the Assumption.