The Latin Mass.

[ResiduumRevertetur]

I would also add here that the Latin Mass is so constructed that it presents an insurmountable barrier against heresy (Cardinal Ottaviani).

I certainly understand that because Latin is a 'dead language', it doesn't change. Is that what you mean by "an insurmountable barrier against heresy"?
Also, if the language preserves the Mass, what about the Greek Orthodox who celebrate the Mass in the Greek language?
Why can it not be preserved in English or in the colloquial language of the people?
Just trying to understand this issue.

How does the Latin language present an insurmountable barrier against heresy?

The venacular is the language in which we sin.

I never thought of that. Thank you.

[JustaServant]

The venacular is the language in which we sin.

Could you elaborate on that?

[mike6240]

There are situations where modern pedestrian English is totally acceptable and where it's not. For instance, would you address a judge in a court of law as "hey, pal" or would you address him as "your honor"? The same with English in church. When you go to church you leave all the everyday, mundane things in life outside and enter a place of holiness, respect and mystery (heaven on earth). Jesus Christ is not my "pal". He's my savior and should be acknowleged as such with the best we can give - including our speech. Mundane, juvenile English just doesn't make the cut. Are we going to see the holy Mass as horizontal (mundane) or verticle (heavenly)? I see it as verticle, lifting me up to heaven and not the other way around ie: bringing the Mass down to my level.

The only justification for using out-dated English I've seen that makes any sense is that thee/thou function as the singular second person pronoun and you as the plural. Such a distinction helps clarify bits of the liturgy and scripture. Otherwise though, modern English is capable of expressing profound sentiment just as beautifully. I don't pray using antiquated English (except in proscribed prayers such as the Hail Mairy) and don't think my prayers are any less elevated for doing so.

I can only speak for myself and my own preferences.  After listening to so many Novus Ordo Masses where the priest says the liturgy like he was addressing a bunch first graders, I definitely prefer "out-dated" English.  ICEL English has devastated the church since the 1970's.  One quote from the Novus Ordo liturgy that grates on my nerves like no other: "Happy are those who are called to His supper" (yech!).  I call this the "Happy Meal" Mass.  Couldn't we do better?  Even substituting "happy" with, perhaps, "Blessed".  To me, it seems, the new mass catered to the lowest common denominator when it was translated from the official Latin.

[ResiduumRevertetur]

There are situations where modern pedestrian English is totally acceptable and where it's not. For instance, would you address a judge in a court of law as "hey, pal" or would you address him as "your honor"? The same with English in church. When you go to church you leave all the everyday, mundane things in life outside and enter a place of holiness, respect and mystery (heaven on earth). Jesus Christ is not my "pal". He's my savior and should be acknowleged as such with the best we can give - including our speech. Mundane, juvenile English just doesn't make the cut. Are we going to see the holy Mass as horizontal (mundane) or verticle (heavenly)? I see it as verticle, lifting me up to heaven and not the other way around ie: bringing the Mass down to my level.

The only justification for using out-dated English I've seen that makes any sense is that thee/thou function as the singular second person pronoun and you as the plural. Such a distinction helps clarify bits of the liturgy and scripture. Otherwise though, modern English is capable of expressing profound sentiment just as beautifully. I don't pray using antiquated English (except in proscribed prayers such as the Hail Mairy) and don't think my prayers are any less elevated for doing so.

I can only speak for myself and my own preferences.  After listening to so many Novus Ordo Masses where the priest says the liturgy like he was addressing a bunch first graders, I definitely prefer "out-dated" English.  ICEL English has devastated the church since the 1970's.  One quote from the Novus Ordo liturgy that grates on my nerves like no other: "Happy are those who are called to His supper" (yech!).  I call this the "Happy Meal" Mass.  Couldn't we do better?  Even substituting "happy" with, perhaps, "Blessed".  To me, it seems, the new mass caters to the lowest common denominator.

[Evey]

Ok, I agree with you there. I thought you meant some sort of florid, Shakespeare pastiche! But a return to more reverent modes of expression would be great (and long overdue).

[Evey]

The venacular is the language in which we sin.

It's also the language in which we privately pray. I'm nowhere near capable of having a meaningful dialogue in Latin and even if I could I don't think I'd address God that way, on a personal basis.

[edomuret]

The venacular is the language in which we sin.

Could you elaborate on that?

That with which we associate sin can hinder our experience with God.  The difference could be between what is acceptable and what is best.  English or any venacular would be acceptable, but when we sin with our mouth, it is in English.  What would be best would be to have the dead unspoiled language that does not change, and usually has no sin attached to it, to ring in the presence of Our Lord.

[edomuret]

The vernacular is the language in which we sin.

It's also the language in which we privately pray. I'm nowhere near capable of having a meaningful dialog in Latin and even if I could I don't think I'd address God that way.

I am not suggesting that we live our lives in Latin.  If we did then Latin would become the vernacular.  The words that consecrate the host and make present Our Lord should be of the most sacred and unspoiled nature, as should everything else in the Mass.  Especially ourselves.

However, St. Francis de Salles in Introduction to the Devout Life strongly recommended we learn our prayers in Latin as well.

[Cephas]

Latin's better since there aren't any doubts about the meaning of the word, since something is always lost in a translation, like "unigenitum" and "factus" in the Nicene Creed. Precision is necessary for worship to God. There also is, to me at least, an innate beauty in the "accent" I find lacking in English.

[Evey]

The vernacular is the language in which we sin.

It's also the language in which we privately pray. I'm nowhere near capable of having a meaningful dialogue in Latin and even if I could I don't think I'd address God that way.

I am not suggesting that we live our lives in Latin.  If we did then Latin would become the vernacular.

...

I wasn't suggesting we live our lives in Latin either. But my prayers (my dialogue) will be in the language I am most comfortable with... English. When it comes to the mass itself, I agree that Latin is to be preferred for a variety of reasons. As for some innate beauty in the 'accent' of Latin... to each their own.