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Author Topic: Choirs of angels  (Read 1890 times)
AgnusDei1989
Musimaniac
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Posts: 3,670



« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2008, 01:42:PM »

Quote from: GrumpyTroll
Quote from: AgnusDei1989

I hear tell the Angel of Death is called Azrael. Confirmation, anybody?


Wikipedia confirms.

Hey, thanks Grumpy. Interesting article.

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Verbis defectis, musica incipit.

"Music is God's gift to man, the only art of Heaven given to earth, the only art of earth we take to Heaven." -- Walter Savage Landor
Catholic777
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2008, 02:24:PM »

Quote
Catholic777, where have you 'heard' those things? I'd be interested to know more, too

Oh, on other message board discussions mainly. Some of it in sermons on angels or speculative theological articles on them.

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Catholicdad
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« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2008, 02:31:PM »

Quote from: AgnusDei1989
Quote from: StrictCatholicGirl
Quote from: TheUnquenchableFlame
there are eleven archangels, correct?


Only 3 are mentioned in the Bible: Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael.

I have heard of a Uriel, but I don't know where that comes from.

- Lisa

I hear tell the Angel of Death is called Azrael. Confirmation, anybody?

I heard of Azrael in Dogma and that other movie with Denzel Washington.

 - Dad
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Cephas
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« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2008, 03:11:PM »

Mary having legions of angels protecting her comes from Mary of Agreda's Mystical City of God, I believe.
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TheUnquenchableFlame
Member

Posts: 102


« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2008, 06:08:PM »

thanks a bunch everyone, especially strictcatholic girl and catholic777.  one other thing that I wanted to know...

666, it's the number of the beast, that's a biblical reference, but what about the other appearent numbers
555: number of man
777: number on the gate to heaven
1111: number on the gates of hell

do any of those have biblical references?

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Catholic777
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2008, 06:20:PM »

Not explicitly. They're just symbolic. But they make sense in terms of traditional numerological symbolism, which is in general scriptural.

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DJR
Member

Posts: 926


« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2008, 12:37:PM »

Quote from: TheUnquenchableFlame
as far as I remember, archangels and angels and cherubim and seraphs are the only ones with distinctive biblical references.

That is not correct.  All nine choirs of angels are explicity mentioned in the Bible in several places.  Here are a few cites:

Seraphim.  Isaias 6:1-2.

Quote
1 In the year that king Ozias died, I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne high and elevated: and his train filled the temple. 2 Upon it stood the seraphims: the one had six wings, and the other had six wings: with two they covered his face, and with two they covered his feet, and with two they hew.


Cherubim.  Genesis 3:24.

Quote
21 And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife, garments of skins, and clothed them. 22 And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever. 23 And the Lord God sent him out of the paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was taken. 24 And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.



Principalities, Powers, Virtues, and Dominations.  Ephesians, 1:21.

Quote
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making commemoration of you in my prayers, 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and of revelation, in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your heart enlightened, that you may know what the hope is of the glory of his inheritance in the saints. 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power towards us, who believe according to the operation of the might of his power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, raising him up from the dead, and setting him on his right hand in the heavenly places.

21 Above all principality, and power, and virtue, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come. 22 And he hath subjected all things under his feet, and hath made him head over all the church, 23 Which is his body, and the fulness of him who is filled all in all.


Thrones.  Colossians 1:16.

Quote
16 For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him. 17 And he is before all, and by him all things consist.


Archangels.  I Thessalonians 4:15.

Quote
15 For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first.


Angels.  I Peter 3:22.

Quote
21 Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 22 Who is on the right hand of God, swallowing down death, that we might be made heirs of life everlasting: being gone into heaven, the angels and powers and virtues being made subject to him.


There are several more references to the choirs of angels in Sacred Scripture, and all nine are contained therein.



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Catholicmilkman
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2008, 01:52:PM »

Quote from: Catholic777
You're missing principalities and dominions. They (with thrones and powers) are mentioned ambiguously by St. Paul, alledgedly. But, again, it's really sort of ambiguous. He could have just meant the worldy powers (ie, secular authorities) given the connotations of those terms.
I believe St. Peter clears up the ambiguity when he wrote "our fight is not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities". This makes it clear that these two terms are not human but only spiritual.
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Catholic777
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« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2008, 12:24:AM »

Quote
I believe St. Peter clears up the ambiguity when he wrote "our fight is not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities". This makes it clear that these two terms are not human but only spiritual.


Yes, I suppose. Though that still doesnt unambiguously indicate choir names. I believe these are as good of names as any to use for those choirs. Better, in fact, just because of the weight of tradition behind them.

But, the words could have just meant demonic forces, generically, not necessarily names of choirs specifically.
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Catholicmilkman
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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2008, 08:44:PM »

Quote from: Catholic777
Quote
I believe St. Peter clears up the ambiguity when he wrote "our fight is not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities". This makes it clear that these two terms are not human but only spiritual.


Yes, I suppose. Though that still doesnt unambiguously indicate choir names. I believe these are as good of names as any to use for those choirs. Better, in fact, just because of the weight of tradition behind them.

But, the words could have just meant demonic forces, generically, not necessarily names of choirs specifically.
Angels though don't have principalities even if they have "powers". The words in the original language are I think probably a lot more specific.
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