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Author Topic: Choirs of angels  (Read 1888 times)
TheUnquenchableFlame
Member

Posts: 102


« on: May 11, 2008, 09:17:PM »

hmm, I'm reading up on this, but I should probably ask a group of catholics for a better undifferentiated opinion mass.  It'll save me a lot of work.

The nine choirs of angels... I don't know if I can rhyme them off right now: angel, archangel, powers, cherubim, virtues, seraphim, thrones... uhhhhh...

what else am I missing and what is the purpose for each?  What are their duties, looks, placement, how they came to be what they are... I would love a scholarly explanation or even a simple one.  No response is too complex or too simple.  i just need some clarification.
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check it out: http://kryshen.deviantart.com/
TheUnquenchableFlame
Member

Posts: 102


« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2008, 09:23:PM »

it's important to me actually because I want to write a story based on (but with significant differences) the book of revelations.  also because I am inherently curious about all things... and hearing the plot of Paradise Lost and reading excepts from it have aroused my curiosity.

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hey, check out my writing, it's mostly Tolkein-esque fantasy, but also some poetry, some gothic, some history and a bit of philisophical

check it out: http://kryshen.deviantart.com/
TheUnquenchableFlame
Member

Posts: 102


« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2008, 09:53:PM »

as far as I remember, archangels and angels and cherubim and seraphs are the only ones with distinctive biblical references.  But the others were ideas posed by my exceedingly catholic english teacher... That also piqued my interest... thanks for your help Smile

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hey, check out my writing, it's mostly Tolkein-esque fantasy, but also some poetry, some gothic, some history and a bit of philisophical

check it out: http://kryshen.deviantart.com/
StrictCatholicGirl
Guest
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2008, 09:54:PM »

Quote from: Evey
Milton's work is (as I'm sure you're aware...) entirely fictional. And he himself rejected Catholicism. Dionysius the Pseudo-Areopagite wrote the Corpus Areopagiticum, which inspired the idea of a strict hierarchy of angels. He was considered an authority throughout the Middle Ages, but has since been discredited. The work is part of tradition, but is in no way doctrinal (or part of Church teaching). The angels mentioned in the Bible, Michael and Gabriel, are considered 'archangels'. As for the nature of the cherubim and seraphim, I'll leave it for others more capable than I am to answer.

Cherubim and seraphim are mentioned in the Old Testament. They are considered the highest order of angels and surround the throne of God. Evey is correct, the Dionysius idea is not doctrinal. I do have a rosary chaplet to the Nine Choirs of Angels, however. Here is that tradition: the orders of angels and their functions.
 
The Order of Angelic Choirs most concerned with the mundane
Angels (includes guardian angels)
Archangels (includes Michael, Raphael, Gabriel)
Principalities

The Order of Intermediate Angelic Choirs
Virtues: Forceful Strength
Powers: Mighty Order
Dominions: Sublime Authority

The Order of Angelic Choirs that surround the throne of God
Thrones: Majestic Righteousness
Cherubim: Overflowing Wisdom
Seraphim: Ardent Love
 
- Lisa
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TheUnquenchableFlame
Member

Posts: 102


« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2008, 09:58:PM »

there are eleven archangels, correct?  And, if I also remember correctly they all have ael at the end... even Michael is technically prnounced Mikael.  What are all the archangels named?  Raphael, Gabriel, Michael... I should know this... what are the others?

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hey, check out my writing, it's mostly Tolkein-esque fantasy, but also some poetry, some gothic, some history and a bit of philisophical

check it out: http://kryshen.deviantart.com/


StrictCatholicGirl
Guest
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2008, 10:02:PM »

Quote from: TheUnquenchableFlame
there are eleven archangels, correct? 


Only 3 are mentioned in the Bible: Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael.

I have heard of a Uriel, but I don't know where that comes from.

- Lisa
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Catholic777
Guest
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2008, 12:03:AM »

Quote
The nine choirs of angels... I don't know if I can rhyme them off right now: angel, archangel, powers, cherubim, virtues, seraphim, thrones... uhhhhh...


You're missing principalities and dominions. They (with thrones and powers) are mentioned ambiguously by St. Paul, alledgedly. But, again, it's really sort of ambiguous. He could have just meant the worldy powers (ie, secular authorities) given the connotations of those terms.

But StrictCatholicGirl is right about the traditional division and order in Catholic literature. Though, especially early on, you will find many different arrangements of those middle ones, and some even have fewer or greater numbers of choirs.

Quote
what else am I missing and what is the purpose for each?


There isnt, strictly speaking, a seperate purpose. It's just a division, rather arbitrary. Some are associated with various things based on their rank. Like the Seraphim with pure charity in adoration for God because they are the closest to him and are portrayed in the Bible with firey wings. The Cherubim with wisdom for various reasons, etc.

Aquinas explains that no two angels are of the same species or even genus (because they have no matter to differentiate them)...but they exist along a continuum from lowest to highest. So, in honor of the Trinity, they are divided equally into 3 hierarchies of 3 choirs each. 

Quote
how they came to be what they are...


God made all the angels, along a continuum. The exact division may we use may be entirely arbitrary, just pious tradition. But the Bible and stuff does speak of "choirs of angels" and different ones like cherubim, seraphim, and archangel are mentioned...so...it seems like they can be grouped in some general sense.

Quote
there are eleven archangels, correct?  And, if I also remember correctly they all have ael at the end... even Michael is technically prnounced Mikael.  What are all the archangels named?  Raphael, Gabriel, Michael... I should know this... what are the others?


Traditionally...Seven actually. Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael are the only ones in the Catholic canon of scripture. But Uriel, Salathiel, Jegudiel, and Barachiel (sometimes Jeremiel) are venerated by the Orthodox and are in their extended canon (ie, apocrypha). This is only somewhat held up by Jewish tradition too.

But "Archangel" in this case (with a capital a) is thought to be different than "archangel" the choir (with a lower-case a).

The Seven Archangels (and thus Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael) are held to be the chief angels. Not in the rather low choir known as archangel (and certainly not comprising the totality of it)...but rather the 7 highest angels, the 7 highest seraphim. Michael at the top (where Lucifer once was), and the 6 surrounding the throne of God that Isaiah saw (and assumed to include Gabriel and Raphael).

But there are not only 7 seraphim, nor just 7 in the choir known as archangel (with a lowercase a). The choirs, according to Aquinas, are simply equal divisions along the continuum. There are likely billions of angels in each choir, with roughly the same number fallen from each choir too among the demons.

I've heard that every angel is paired with a human, as a guardian. And also that we have a specific demon that tempts us particularly. And if the angel's charge is damned...they get assigned another person until someone is saved. So that, in the End, every angel will be particularly paired with someone in heaven (and, it is implied, every demon with someone in hell).

It is suggested that this may be the determining factor in what Total Number of angels and humans God decided to make. Namely, that God always intended to make the same number of humans and angels, and then looked forward into these different possible histories, with each possible total number, to see how many of each would fall in each case. And then He chose to create the total number that resulted in a situation with the minimal proportion of fallen, but that also would have the total number of fallen angels and fallen humans be the same. It's a number in the Hundreds of Billions at least, just based on how many humans are thought to have existed so far...but if the world doesnt end soon, it could be in the trillions or higher, we cant really know. I personally find powerful the idea that the proportion is exactly half of angels and humans fallen, so that every human saved is paired with an angel in heaven, but is also "replacing" a demon, filling up their "spot" in the hierarchy (with Christ replacing Lucifer, etc).

Some say that only the lowest choir known simply as "angels" act as guardians. But I've heard otherwise, I've heard that the higher orders, while also guarding whole nations or groups...do so especially by guarding an important or symbolic member. Like...the guardian angel, let's say a Dominion, of the United States might have also been George Washington's particular personal guardian, etc.

I've also heard it suggested that Michael was Christ's specific guardian in His humanity (and thus the whole Body of Christ in the Church), Gabriel was the Virgin Mary's, and Raphael perhaps St. Joseph's or John the Baptist's (and the other Archangels being assigned to important people too). Of course, it is said that Mary, in addition to her specific guardian, had legions of other angels guarding her. But these likely had their own specific charges too. Perhaps great Saints of the future whose angels were (in God's foresight) honored by also being given this task.
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AgnusDei1989
Musimaniac
Member

Gender: Female
Posts: 3,670



« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2008, 10:35:AM »

Quote from: StrictCatholicGirl
Quote from: TheUnquenchableFlame
there are eleven archangels, correct?  


Only 3 are mentioned in the Bible: Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael.

I have heard of a Uriel, but I don't know where that comes from.

- Lisa
I hear tell the Angel of Death is called Azrael. Confirmation, anybody?
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Verbis defectis, musica incipit.

"Music is God's gift to man, the only art of Heaven given to earth, the only art of earth we take to Heaven." -- Walter Savage Landor
GrumpyTroll
Guest
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2008, 11:14:AM »

Quote from: AgnusDei1989
Quote from: StrictCatholicGirl
Quote from: TheUnquenchableFlame
there are eleven archangels, correct?  


Only 3 are mentioned in the Bible: Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael.

I have heard of a Uriel, but I don't know where that comes from.

- Lisa
I hear tell the Angel of Death is called Azrael. Confirmation, anybody?

Wikipedia confirms.
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StrictCatholicGirl
Guest
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2008, 11:32:AM »

Very interesting, Grumpy!

- Lisa
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