Is the Douay-Rheims Bible a sham?

[StrictCatholicGirl]

 
I also like the NAB because it's what I *hear* everyday at Mass

Actually Lisa, what you hear at Mass everyday is from a Revised version of the NAB, which you can't buy anywhere except in the Lectionary. The Vatican would not approve the readings taken from the more recent editions of the NAB because of the inclusive language used in the 1986 (NT) and 1990 (Psalms) revisions to the translation. The ICEL (or was it the US Bishops) had to get rid of the most egregious examples of inclusive language before the Vatican would accept it. If anyone really wants to use the NAB, I would suggest getting the original 1970 version, which should still be available here and there.

I generally use the RSV-CE, but refer to the Jerusalem or the 1970 NAB when some phrase is peculiarly worded in the RSV (especially prevalent in Paul's epistles).

-David

I do have the 1970 version, I also have a lectionary. I work at a church supply store 

- Lisa

EDITED TO ADD: I work at my diocesan parish church (as church secretary) four days a week and at the church supply store on Saturdays, so actually I have easy access to lots of "churchy" stuff to which the average Catholic doesn't.

-Lisa

[Fractus]

I work at a church supply store 

Wow, I'm jealous! Must be kind of like working at a candy store!

[StrictCatholicGirl]

Does anyone like the Revised Standard Version - CE?

I picked up a RSV-CE Bible for the first time yesterday, and after years with the Douay-Rheims, I must say, I absolulty love it. Not to bash the DR, but the RSV-CE seems perfect for devotional reading. Sometimes with the DR I have to make a forced effort; I see myself doing a lot more reading of Sacred Scripture now.

Most of my Bible reading is devotional now. I still like studying the Bible and using it for research, but less and less these days. Mostly I just want to "sit and absorb." The RSV-CE has been good to me 

- Lisa

[StrictCatholicGirl]

I work at a church supply store 

Wow, I'm jealous! Must be kind of like working at a candy store!

I call it a Catholic Disney Land 

- Lisa

[jovan66102]

I work at a church supply store 

Wow, I'm jealous! Must be kind of like working at a candy store!

 

I live just down the street from an excellent Catholic bookstore. I avoid it as much as possible for fear of damage to my wallet. Not only do they have a great selection of current books, but they buy old seminary and monastery/convent libraries, so their selection of pre-Conciliar stuff is great, too!

[Robb]

I would not trust the NAB.  Not only is the translation banal and unpoetical but the footnotes are full of modernist error.  I'm also not so sure about the RSV.  Wasn't this Bible produced by protestants in the 50's as an update of the KJV?  Why should Catholics wish to read protestant bible?

I'm blessed to have an original 1911 version of the DR (challoner) that is in excellent shape.  The pages are almost white and the text is free from the blurring you get from photostat reproductions of the DR.

Bob

[jovan66102]

  I'm also not so sure about the RSV.  Wasn't this Bible produced by protestants in the 50's as an update of the KJV?  Why should Catholics wish to read protestant bible?

 

I believe people are talking about the RSV-CE (Revised Standard Version-Catholic Edition), an imprimatured, Catholic 'revision' of the protestant RSV containing all the Books of the Bible.

[aquinas138]

I'm not a KJV apologist, but these examples aren't that damning.

D-R:
GENESIS 14. 18 But Melchisedech the king of Salem, bringing forth bread and wine, *for* he was the priest of the most high God...

KJV:
GENESIS 14  18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: *and* he was the priest of the most high God...

[KJV undermines the Mass and the eternal priesthood by changing "for" to "and" as if there was no connection]

You have to understand that the KJV is translated from Hebrew, not Latin.  In Latin, it is unambiguously "for," but in Hebrew, the conjunction is waw, which is typically translated "and," though it has a range of meanings in different contexts.

D-R:
1 Tim. 4:14  14 Neglect not the grace that is in thee, which was given thee by prophesy, with imposition of the hands of the priesthood.



KJV:
1 Tim. 4:14  Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Both Latin "gratia" and Greek "charisma" can be translated as either "gift" or "grace."

D-R:
Luke 1:28   28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.



KJV:
Luke 1:28  And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

I agree that the KJV and NAB translation is not adequate, but the Vulgate's "gratia plena" is not literal, though it captures the sense better.

D-R:
Genesis 3:15  15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.



KJV:
Genesis 3:15  15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

[15 "She shall crush"... Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz., the seed. The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent's head.]

Again, this is because the D-R is translating the Vulgate, which is alone among the ancient versions in having "she shall crush" (though there are some Patristic readings with this).  The Hebrew, the Septuagint and the Syriac all say that the seed will crush.

D-R:
2 Peter 1:10  Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time.



KJV:
2 Peter 1:10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[Substitution of "diligence" for "good works."]

I'm not entirely sure I see a huge difference here.  The Greek verb is "spoudazo," which means  to hasten, exert oneself, endeavor, give difference, etc.  The Vulgate translation, while entirely correct, "colors" the phrase in a way that hides the nuances of the Greek word (in no way St. Jerome's fault - it's one of the chief limitations of translation).

Again, many of the discrepancies between the D-R and the KJV are due to the fact that they are not translating from the same source text.  While some translation choices were undoubtedly affected by controversy, these examples, apart perhaps from Luke 1:28, are easily explained by the use of a different source text.

[DrBombay]

Check out this verse from the DR version, Josue chapter 15, verse 18.

"And as they were going together, she was moved by her husband to ask a field of her father, and she sighed as she sat on her ass. And Caleb said to her: What aileth thee?"

That was probably a perfectly acceptable rendering into English many years ago.  But now it's just funny.  Sorry, but it is.  I prefer to laugh at the intentional humor of Holy Scripture.   Not humor engendered by archaic translations.  

[Vincentius]

I'm not a KJV apologist, but these examples aren't that damning.

Aquinas138, you say the above but you sure are not only defending -- but also giving credence -- to a non-Catholic Bible, as if lexicon and terminology make up meanings and sense more valid than divine inspiration.  My drift is St. Jerome was inspired by the Holy Ghost in his translation from the Greek (Hebrew and Aramaic), as well as those who translated his Latin into English were likewise inspired.   The heretics who translated the Authorized Version (the KJV)  were not, and that is why their Bible contains errors.  Besides, at the time of the KJV translations, the original Gospels were no longer extant and they had to rely on what was available, copies of copies of copies, which without doubt some errors have crept in.

I don't understand why people put down the authentic and indubitable Catholic Bible and laud the false.  The Authorized Version has been "authorized" by a King who was a political man and not a religious.