SSPX Confirms Existence of Vatican Offer

[Catholic777]

Well...lifting the excommunications is one thing and of course it would be done in the case of reunion.

Declaring that they "never happened" is very different indeed. It still might be done by the Vatican for the sake of unity, but the SSPX's insistence on it...is self-centered and prideful.

Let's say there was a pope who fully restored tradition, got rid of the novus ordo, etc...but also demanded that the SSPX bishops and priests preform public penance for schism as a condition of regularization.

Would the SSPX bishops be willing to suck it up, humble themselves, and submit, all their substantive objections being taken care of?? I'm not so sure, they're really obsessed with their own narrative. But, they'd attract no new members in such a situation.

[BlessedKarl]

Surely the SSPX sees that if they fully rejoin the Church the increased amount of strength they will bring to the traditionalist movement? Think of how hard this will slam the liberals. I have heard the SSPX has over one million adherents (not the best word but its the only one I could think of)! Imagine them all fully rejoining and the amount of muscle they could field against the libs?!

[Whitey]

Surely the SSPX sees that if they fully rejoin the Church the increased amount of strength they will bring to the traditionalist movement? Think of how hard this will slam the liberals. I have heard the SSPX has over one million adherents (not the best word but its the only one I could think of)! Imagine them all fully rejoining and the amount of muscle they could field against the libs?!

I agree. Think about all the bishops who are ignoring the SP. What will they do when they see the SSPX chapels overflowing with folks once word gets out that the suspensions are lifted ?

Pope Benedict knows what he is going to get if the SSPX agree to return. He knows they will remain steadfast in their opinions. Yet he is willing to place them in the mist of the lukewarm. I hope they understand this and seize the opportunity.

[DeusEratVerbum]

Think about all the bishops who are ignoring the SP. What will they do when they see the SSPX chapels overflowing with folks once word gets out that the suspensions are lifted ?

But if the SSPX is granted a personal prelature, won't they be under the authority of the local bishops to some degree?  Similar to how if a bishop doesn't like the FSSP, he can say that they aren't allowed in his diocese?  For this reason alone I am praying that the SSPX does not agree to this trap.

[Whitey]

Think about all the bishops who are ignoring the SP. What will they do when they see the SSPX chapels overflowing with folks once word gets out that the suspensions are lifted ?

But if the SSPX is granted a personal prelature, won't they be under the authority of the local bishops to some degree? Similar to how if a bishop doesn't like the FSSP, he can say that they aren't allowed in his diocese? For this reason alone I am praying that the SSPX does not agree to this trap.

Well, I understand your position. It's been a long fight for them. But, by that reasoning, what will it take ?

Are we going to wait for a pope to "clean house " ? I mean really, what would we have Pope BXVI do ?

What is it going to take to trust a pope ?

[Baskerville]

Think about all the bishops who are ignoring the SP. What will they do when they see the SSPX chapels overflowing with folks once word gets out that the suspensions are lifted ?

But if the SSPX is granted a personal prelature, won't they be under the authority of the local bishops to some degree? Similar to how if a bishop doesn't like the FSSP, he can say that they aren't allowed in his diocese? For this reason alone I am praying that the SSPX does not agree to this trap.

Well, I understand your position. It's been a long fight for them. But, by that reasoning, what will it take ?

Are we going to wait for a pope to "clean house " ? I mean really, what would we have Pope BXVI do ?

What is it going to take to trust a pope ?

I agree with DEV things are not Orthodox in Rome enough for the SSPX to make any agreement. If they were under modernist Rome what could they do to further tradition? Sure the Mass would be there but when the Pope goes and prays with muhommadans etc. who will be able to speak out against this stuff. Nevertheless I assume this is just a rumor, just a few weeks ago Bishop Fellay said that the Pope is "perfectly liberal" and now he is just going to sell out to the new order? I don't think so.

[katoliko]

Baskerville, it's not a rumor.

http://www.voiceofcatholicradio.com/080622.6th_suday_after_pentecost,fr_portugal_ultimatum.mp3

"edit*  I just finished listening to this.  The SSPX will not accept the offer/ultimatum, and I agree that they shouldn't.

[charlesh]

From what I've been told, SSPX's 'demands' have always been: 1) Release the TLM; and 2) Lift the excommunications.

There has always been a third condition, too, which is to engage in doctrinal discussions. This is because the original deal Card. Ratzinger offered to Abp. Lefebvre prohibited SSPX priests from criticizing doctrinal points of the Second Vatican Council. Abp. Lefebvre would stand for no muzzling on issues that were really the very heart of the problems.

Moreover, these "demands" are really "pre-conditions," that is, they have to happen before they will even think about regularization. If the conditions you mentioned are met, but without the freedom to engage Rome doctrinally, I can't see how they could proceed, since from the SSPX point of view, the problem is primarily doctrinal.

[Whitey]

Think about all the bishops who are ignoring the SP. What will they do when they see the SSPX chapels overflowing with folks once word gets out that the suspensions are lifted ?

But if the SSPX is granted a personal prelature, won't they be under the authority of the local bishops to some degree? Similar to how if a bishop doesn't like the FSSP, he can say that they aren't allowed in his diocese? For this reason alone I am praying that the SSPX does not agree to this trap.

Well, I understand your position. It's been a long fight for them. But, by that reasoning, what will it take ?

Are we going to wait for a pope to "clean house " ? I mean really, what would we have Pope BXVI do ?

What is it going to take to trust a pope ?

I agree with DEV things are not Orthodox in Rome enough for the SSPX to make any agreement. If they were under modernist Rome what could they do to further tradition? Sure the Mass would be there but when the Pope goes and prays with muhommadans etc. who will be able to speak out against this stuff. Nevertheless I assume this is just a rumor, just a few weeks ago Bishop Fellay said that the Pope is "perfectly liberal" and now he is just going to sell out to the new order? I don't think so.

I'm aware of the concerns the SSPX has. And I'm convinced they are right.

But why does Rome remain Modernist ? How can a balance be achieved, and then a tip of the scales back toward true Roman Catholicism, if the majority of the traditionalist clergy remain in this situation ?

Again, what is it going to take ? What does a pope have to do ? Does anyone really believe that by holding out long enough, we will see a conclave dominated by modernists elect a true traditionalist ? 

I'm beginning to think that we need to realize that there are two different mindsets, a division, enabled by VII, and that we have two choices. One, simply ignore the concilliar Church, and find a traditional chapel, content that it will remain our only chance to live as Roman Catholics. Or, two, work from within the Church, to save souls. And hopefully, being in the mist of those laity who don't know what all the fuss is about, we can at the very least, give them the means to make an informed choice as to what mindset they will embrace.

Perhaps I'm dreaming. I don't know.

Edited to add: I'm not saying the traditionalist clergy and faithful are actualy outside the Church when I say it may be best to work within the Church. By that, I mean get into their mist and inform them.

[Joshua]

 For this reason alone I am praying that the SSPX does not agree to this trap.

... Only a matter of time before this old line got trotted out. And what trap is that, pray tell, DEV?

I see no manner in which the Church will return to tradition if those who have remained faithful to it persist in severing all ties and communication with this lost flock. Are we to let modernism fester within our Holy Mother Church till all souls within her fold have succumbed to it and the bastions of he faith smolder aflame while traditionalists happily carry out their business amidst the smoke outside the walls?

I have a great admiration for the Society, but more and more, the hierarchy seem all too comfy in their dubious positions and more and more their reluctance to leave their little gated "remnant" of Catholicism smells of cowardice of the worst kind: the cowardice of refusing to uphold the faith and our immemorial traditions in the arena most significant (in the midst of the Church) where souls are at their greatest peril. They have abandoned the front line of this crisis and are perfectly content in watching Rome burn from their trenches.

I pray that this deal offered by the Church comes to fruition for the sake of all those involved.

"Extra SSPX Nulla Salus"

God bless,
JRS