SSPX Confirms Existence of Vatican Offer

[Arthur]

This is an update on recent news for your information:

         SSPX Confirms Existence of Vatican Offer          

        by Gregor Kollmorgen                      

     

Following up on the Tornielli piece regarding a Vatican offer for regualrization to the SSPX [...], Fr Alain-Marc Nély, second assistant of Bishop Fellay, the superior of the Society of St. Pius X, has confirmed to the Swiss Catholic news agency Kipa/Apic that such an offer indeed exists. Here is the relevant part of the Kipa/Apic item (see here in German or here in French) in an NLM translation:

Confirmation of the offer, but no indication of the response

Menzingen, 23 June 2008 (Apic) The Vatican has proposed an agreement to the Priestly Society of St. Pius X to end the schism, reported on 23 June 2008 the Italian daily "Il Giornale." Asked Monday by Apic, Father Alain-Marc Nély, second assistant of Bishop Bernard Fellay, the superior of the Society of St. Pius X in Menzingen (canton of Zug), has indeed confirmed the existence of proposals on the part of the Vatican.

Not wanting to go into further details, Fr Nély, however, confirmed that a proposal of an agreement was made at the beginnig of this month. With conditions. The answer will be given by June 28 "God willing", and will then be made public, he said. But the number three of the schismatic fraternity did not want to indicate in what direction the response of Bishop Fellay would go.

KIPA/APIC also reports that another news agency, I.MEDIA, has asked the Holy See for confirmation, which has neither confirmed nor denied the information. A sojourn of Bishop Fellay in Rome a fee weeks ago has, however, been confirmed to I.MEDIA, according to KIPA/APIC.

[Joshua]

... The Vatican has proposed an agreement to the Priestly Society of St. Pius X to end the schism ...

I doubt it was worded in anywhere near such a manner. I pray that there is substance to this new development.

God bless,
JRS

[QuisUtDeus]

I think B16 is pushing hard to reconcile this situation.  I don't think he dislikes the SSPX in any way, but I think even if he wants to grant them what they ask, it would be very difficult for him to do so.

JP2, on the other hand, I don't think had any love for the SSPX, and probably just the opposite emotion.

[Joshua]

I think B16 is pushing hard to reconcile this situation.  I don't think he dislikes the SSPX in any way, but I think even if he wants to grant them what they ask, it would be very difficult for him to do so.

JP2, on the other hand, I don't think had any love for the SSPX, and probably just the opposite emotion.

I agree, Quis. However, why do you believe that the Pope would be hard-pressed to implement his intentions? Might you be referring to the cancer of rampant collegiality? The Holy Father's promulgation of the Motu Proprio was a remarkable feat in and of itself

I truly believe that a "regularized" SSPX will close ranks with the FSSP and other traditionalist groups and serve as the catalyst for tradition returning to the Church. If our Lord wills it, this will come to fruition.

God bless,
JRS

[donumabdeo]

I think B16 is pushing hard to reconcile this situation.  I don't think he dislikes the SSPX in any way, but I think even if he wants to grant them what they ask, it would be very difficult for him to do so.

JP2, on the other hand, I don't think had any love for the SSPX, and probably just the opposite emotion.

When I read what you have written, it seems that if it were possible, you have not even read your own forums!  The number of things that Benedict has approved of that the SSPX stands so diametrically opposed to in every way is simply without count.  The man has proven himself to promote a greater attack on tradition than have all the pre-Vatican II popes combined.  Qui habet aures audiendi, audiat.

[QuisUtDeus]

I think B16 is pushing hard to reconcile this situation. I don't think he dislikes the SSPX in any way, but I think even if he wants to grant them what they ask, it would be very difficult for him to do so.

JP2, on the other hand, I don't think had any love for the SSPX, and probably just the opposite emotion.

When I read what you have written, it seems that if it were possible, you have not even read your own forums! The number of things that Benedict has approved of that the SSPX stands so diametrically opposed to in every way is simply without count. The man has proven himself to promote a greater attack on tradition than have all the pre-Vatican II popes combined.  Qui habet aures audiendi, audiat.

LOL, yes I read the forums.  In fact, I try to read every post (though it really isn't possible even on a good day).

Notice I didn't say I think he agrees with them, but I believe he respects them and has no problem with the TLM, traditional Sacraments, etc. being an integral part of Catholicism.

[QuisUtDeus]

I agree, Quis. However, why do you believe that the Pope would be hard-pressed to implement his intentions? Might you be referring to the cancer of rampant collegiality? The Holy Father's promulgation of the Motu Proprio was a remarkable feat in and of itself

That, and the fact the SSPX wants the V2 documents overhauled.  Even if B16 were willing to agree to a theological commission, etc., to look at them, I think the bishops-at-large, and their lay sympathizers and co-conspirators, would pitch a fit because they associate every nutty thing they do to "The Spirit of Vatican 2".  They need those documents to justify their antics.

I don't think B16 wants to risk a large-scale separation to fix the problems with the SSPX, and from a pragmatic and human standpoint, I can't blame him.  It's a tough call.

But anything B16 does to help tradition and to lay the groundwork so that someday things can happen, I am most thankful for - both to God and the Holy Father.

[DarkKnight]

I found these paragraphs interesting from the link cited at the start of this thread. The author by referring to "Pope Wojtyla" and Pope Benedict seems to betray some feelings - but the tone is overall very optimistic.

In the relations between the Holy See and the Lefebvrians the countdown has begun: by this 28 June, the Fraternity of St. Pius X, founded by the French Archbishop who would not suffer the post-conciliar liturgical reform, will in fact have to decide whether to accept the five conditions proposed by the Vatican in order to reenter into full communion with Rome. Some days ago, the superior of the Lefebvrians, Bishop Bernard Fellay, met with Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos, president of the Commission Ecclesia Dei, which deals on behalf of Benedict XVI with negotiations with the traditionalist group. Fellay, who previously had written to the Pope asking for the revocation of the excommunication imposed by John Paul II in 1988 to Lefebvre and the four new bishops that he had wanted to consecrate without the consent of the Holy See (among them Fellay himself), has received a letter with the five points set by the cardinal [Castrillón] and will discuss them during the next chapter of the fraternity, to be held at the end of the month.

Never like at this moment the negotiations have come close to an agreementwhich would heal the mini-schism which had been created now two decades ago, allowing the full reentering of the Lefebvrians into the Catholic communion. Among the points that the Holy See asked to sign there would be, according to the indiscretions gathered, the acceptance of the II Vatican Council and the declaration of full validity of the Mass according to the reformed liturgy: two conditions that Lefebvre had already signed with the then cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 1988. The Vatican, for its part, offers the traditionalist group a canonical framework similar to that of Opus Dei, namely a [personal] "prelature", which would allow the Fraternity to continue its activities and to train its seminarians.

The march of rapprochement was started in 2000, when the Lefebvrians made a Holy Year pilgrimage to Rome. It was followed by a brief audience granted by Pope Wojtyla to Monsignor Fellay and the beginning of the long and laborious negotiations with Cardinal Castrillón. Many things have changed since then however. The Lefebvrians asked, before making any step towards an agreement, that the old preconciliar missal, which fell into disuse after the liturgical reform, be liberalised. The new pope, Benedict XVI, particularly sensitive to these issues, a year ago published the Motu proprio declaring the full citizenship of the old Mass allowing it in every parish, in fact stripping the bishop of the possibility of prohibiting it. The application of the new papal directives has not been easy, there are a lot of cases of resistance - some blatant, as is known - but it is beyond doubt that by declaring the existence of an extraordinary Roman rite (the old one) and an ordinary (the reformed one), the Pope has authorized throughout the Church and without restrictions the celebration of the Tridentine Mass. Moreover, Ratzinger has reintroduced the Cross at the centre of the altar, has begun to distribute communion to the faithful kneeling, has restored ancient vestments: all signals that go in the direction of emphasizing the continuity of tradition.

Conditions this favourable for a reentering into full communion will in all likelihood not repeat themselves. Many faithful, now that they have obtained the Mass according to the ancient rite, do not understand why the Fraternity does not definitively make peace with Rome. The Lefebvrians have come to realize what is happening, even if Fellay has some problems of internal resistance. The choice is whether to make an agreement and reenter into full communion with the Holy See, or rather to remain a small separate body with the risk of turning into a little sectarian and uninfluential group.

[QuisUtDeus]

I found these paragraphs interesting from the link cited at the start of this thread. The author by referring to "Pope Wojtyla" and Pope Benedict seems to betray some feelings - but the tone is overall very optimistic.

He also call them Lefebvrians, schismatics, and refers to B16 as "Ratzinger" (after he was elected Pope).

The SSPX has repeatedly said they accept the Novus Ordo as "valid" (though bad), so I'm thinking the sticking point will be V2.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

From what I've been told, SSPX's 'demands' have always been: 1) Release the TLM; and 2) Lift the excommunications.  Unless the excommunications are lifted, I don't see the SSPX engaging in serious talks with Rome.

Even if this new development would result in the excommunications being lifted, I still don't see them reuniting with Rome any time soon.  They'd have to see a significant change in doctrine (or probability of a change) before they'd agree to be regularized.