SSPX Confirms Existence of Vatican Offer

[DarkKnight]

"I concede your point."

Well thank you. Regardless of our personal viewpoints, I suspect we'd all agree that this is sorry situation for the Church from which there will be no real winners -- only losers or perhaps survivors.

"... or perhaps survivors."

That's a bit maudlin, even by Irish standards. Gates of hell not prevailing and other such "rot." Stiff upper lip and a sharp dirk in a handy place. 

Although after reading that 7-page quote from the SSPX Founder, I don't see any of the wiggle room that identifies Roman agreements.

[finegan]

The "survivors," if you want to use that term, will be the remaining SSPX adherents who must live with a "schismatic" tag pinned to their chests, not to mention all Traditional-minded Catholics who will be deprived of the contributions the SSPX could make to the modern Church under the terms of a truly equitable agreement with Rome.

Again, no winners in this scenario.

[Tiny]

Update! It looks like these conditions were given to Bishop Fellay individually as preconditions to further dialogue. This changes the game completely. After the Bishop's latest comments about the Pope, the Pope wants to set some ground rules for further dialogue. This makes MUCH more sense.

Herein is the problem.  Had the press came out and announced the 5 precondtions for Bp Fellay only, this would have been a relatively simple issue.  However, by announcing a hard and fast deal a few days ago which wasn't true(i.e. personal prelature), the people in the SSPX who do not want to make a deal with the current Pontificate have been stirred.

[QuisUtDeus]

Update! It looks like these conditions were given to Bishop Fellay individually as preconditions to further dialogue. This changes the game completely. After the Bishop's latest comments about the Pope, the Pope wants to set some ground rules for further dialogue. This makes MUCH more sense.

Herein is the problem.  Had the press came out and announced the 5 precondtions for Bp Fellay only, this would have been a relatively simple issue.  However, by announcing a hard and fast deal a few days ago which wasn't true(i.e. personal prelature), the people in the SSPX who do not want to make a deal with the current Pontificate have been stirred.

Conclusion: The press are a den of Satanic vipers.

But we already knew that.

[StevusMagnus]

Fr. Z just spoke for two segments on National Radio host Hugh Hewitt's talk show regarding the SSPX situation!

Audio to be posted soon...

       

Wednesday, June 25, 2008    

   

        Benedict, SSPX and Father Z

         Posted by:         Hugh Hewitt         at         7:40 PM               The split in the Roman Catholic Church that grew out of the formation of the Society of St. Pius X may be close to resolving.  Father John Zuhlsdorf explained the situation on today's show, and you can read his blog here.

Even non-Catholics ought to pray for the return of unity within the Church of Rome.

[StevusMagnus]

Audio of the Fr. Z interview has been posted.

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/talkradio/Show.aspx?RadioShowID=5

[ggreg]

Finnegan,

It seems like the bishop's sermon labelling the Holy Father a classic liberal hit a nerve.

The five points don't stifle criticism of the council and its documents - but DO demand respect for the Petrine Office.

Not a classic liberal a "perfect" liberal.  There is a difference.  A classic liberal would have been far more insulting.

[ggreg]

[neel]

I'm not aware of any document that cannot be judge-shopped to turn it to mean something entirely different than when it was inked. At that point, it becomes the work of saints and martyrs to witness to its original intent.

You ever read any of the Council of Trent?

[StevusMagnus]

UPDATE:

CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 7:29 am

I just saw this.  The writer has based himself on something B. Fellay said last week.

But the time frame set by the Holy See isn’t over yet.

Catholic rebel snubs pope call to rejoin Rome   [I don’t think this is the end of the story.]
Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:25am EDT

By Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor

PARIS (Reuters) – The leader of a breakaway traditionalist Catholic group has rejected a Vatican offer to rejoin Rome, accusing Pope Benedict of trying to silence dissenting voices.

Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) that broke with Rome 20 years ago, said conditions set by the Vatican amounted to muzzling the traditionalists who claim to be the only true Catholics since Church reforms in the 1960s.

Keen to end this schism, Benedict agreed last year to their demand to restore the old Latin Mass. [That is not the only reason he released Summorum Pontificum.]  But he insists they must accept the reforms of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) before he can lift excommunication decrees against them.  [Umm.. I am not sure that this is the case, at least in the way it sounds here, black and white.  There is a lot of theological room to debate many points of what Council documents mean.  I don’t think Pope Benedict would ever want to stifle theological discussion.]

"Rome is telling us, okay, we are ready to lift the excommunications, but you cannot continue this way," Fellay said in a sermon last Friday now posted as an audio file on the U.S.-based Voice of Catholic Radio website.  [However, that was a sermon last Friday.  This isn’t the end of the story.]

"So we have no choice… we are continuing what we’ve done," the Swiss-born Fellay said in English at an SSPX seminary in Winona, Minnesota. "They just say ‘shut up’ ... we are not going … to shut up."

The Milan daily Il Giornale reported on Monday the Vatican had told the SSPX it must pledge to respect the pope and accept him as the Church’s final doctrinal authority.

Vatican spokesman Rev. Federico Lombardi told the Paris Catholic daily La Croix: "The pope wants to extend his hand so they can return, but for that to happen, this offer must be received in an attitude and spirit of charity and communion."

Lombardi did not spell out the consequences of rejecting the offer, but Il Giornale’s well-informed Vatican expert Andrea Tornielli wrote: "Such favorable conditions for a return to full communion will in all probability not come again."

TIP OF THE ICEBERG

The SSPX claims about a million followers worldwide, many of them in France. It split off when its founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, consecrated four traditionalist bishops—including Fellay—in 1988 against orders from Pope John Paul.

Since then, it has regularly appealed to the Vatican to withdraw the excommunications and allow it to return to the 1.1-billion strong Church. But its leaders often publicly denounce the pope.

Fellay said the pope must restore other Church traditions besides the old Latin Mass before the SSPX could return. It is particularly critical of the Vatican Council’s reconciliation with Judaism and call to cooperation with other Christians.

"The new Mass is the tip of the iceberg of Vatican II and of these modern ideas." Adding the old Mass to the "iceberg of Vatican II" did not change the reforms hidden below, he said.

Vatican watchers say the ultimatum could split SSPX into a hard core of rebels and a larger group ready to return to Rome now that it has allowed wider use of the old Latin Mass.

"Most people want a reverent Mass and sound preaching. They care little for the loftier theological arguments," Rev. John Zuhlsdorf, a prominent conservative Catholic blogger, wrote in an analysis. "The identity of the SSPX is at stake now."

The ultimatum’s deadline of June 30 is the 20th anniversary of the bishops’ ordinations that sealed the schism.

 

This story tries to leave you the impression that the whole thing is over, Fellay said "No", and that’s that.

I wonder.  I don’t think so.

Keep praying.  We haven’t gotten to the end of the month yet.