Bishop Williamson on "the conditions"

[newschoolman]

Oh, and the Pope hasn't even explained how Vatican II can be reconciled with Tradition, especially with a few of the documents.

Who says that is is contrary to Tradition in the first place?

And how can the Society be against the Magisterium, if Vatican II didn't define anything new?

Well, then Bishop Fellay has nothing to fear in agreeing to the 5 points.

[finegan]

Apparently the current Vatican leadership is now beyond reproach; all vocal Traditionalist dissent will be dealt with in the harshest terms. Does the Cardinal realize what he's saying? If I understand his position correctly, anyone who questions the clear departure of modern Rome from traditional church theology, as expressed by popes and encyclicals over history, is now a heretic.

IMHO, this is a chilling new escalation in the Modernists' fight to suppress Holy Tradition. Unbelievable!

[Quo_Vadis_Petre]

Oh, and the Pope hasn't even explained how Vatican II can be reconciled with Tradition, especially with a few of the documents.

Who says that is is contrary to Tradition in the first place?

[/QUOTE]

Msgr. de Smedt, for the document DH, when he stated quite a few of the Fathers were asking how the doctrine contained in DH can be reconciled to that of Pope Leo XIII, and that it would be a matter for future theological discussion.

And how can the Society be against the Magisterium, if Vatican II didn't define anything new?

Well, then Bishop Fellay has nothing to fear in agreeing to the 5 points.

With the ambiguity of the wording in those 5 conditions, it can easily lead to the SSPX being muzzled to not speak out what they see are contradictions of Vatican II.

[Baskerville]

These "conditions" are nothing more that the SSPX has claimed to hold all along -- charity and due respect for the person and office of Peter. If that is denied now what is to remain of the SSPX? It goes beyond formal schism and into heresy regarding the petrine office. Indeed, Cardinal Castrillon recently warned that those going along with "the heresy" will also be excommunicated. This is a grave matter and the moment of Truth for Bishop Fellay and the SSPX.

What kind of heresy are you talking about?  The last time I heard, you actually have to have a heretical opinion to be a heretic.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the Pope go to Econe to hold an ecumenical service.  Maybe the SSPX will be invited to the next Assisi! 

Cardinal Castrillon mentions the heresy here:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/HoyosInterview.htm

It involves those who think that they are the "teachers of the Pope" (i.e., a superior magisterium).  He says that those who go along with this will also be excommunicated...

Its not too hard to connect the dots and see what's coming for those who can't recognize the reality of the petrine office.

The Pope does have a teacher the unfalibale traditional magisterium of the church. It is not the SSPX that needs to worry about being the heretics.

[DarkKnight]

If they're muzzled in the future, they scream foul and strike out on their own (again).

[Baskerville]

 Indeed, Cardinal Castrillon recently warned that those going along with "the heresy" will also be excommunicated.  This is a grave matter and the moment of Truth for Bishop Fellay and the SSPX.   

Indeed, and the moment of truth for the conciliar Church as well. The Pope and his guys always talk about the hermeneutic of continuity if declaring the ENTIRE SSPX along with its followers excomunicate they will divorce themselves from the tradition of the Church once and for all and run the risk of being caught with their cassocks down and not being able to play the hermeneutic of traditon anymore.

I would rather be excomunicated for holding onto the true faith then go to hell for following false obediance to modernist heretics.

[DarkKnight]

Can you still be a member of the True Faith if Peter says "You're cut off!"?

[newschoolman]

Oh, and the Pope hasn't even explained how Vatican II can be reconciled with Tradition, especially with a few of the documents.

Who says that is is contrary to Tradition in the first place?

Msgr. de Smedt, for the document DH...[/QUOTE]

Msgr. de Smedt?  Go back and read the Pope Benedict in his address to the Roman Curia (December, 2005).

[Quo_Vadis_Petre]

Oh, and the Pope hasn't even explained how Vatican II can be reconciled with Tradition, especially with a few of the documents.

Who says that is is contrary to Tradition in the first place?

Msgr. de Smedt, for the document DH...

Msgr. de Smedt?  Go back and read the Pope Benedict in his address to the Roman Curia (December, 2005).

I've read it, and I still don't see how the document DH can be reconciled with Tradition, even if most of it is sound.

[Quo_Vadis_Petre]

Can you still be a member of the True Faith if Peter says "You're cut off!"?

There is such a thing as invalid, unjust excommunications.