Why do I like Bishop Williamson so much?

[maldon]

If I understand correctly, therefore, Bishop Williamson has his points, favorable and unfavorable.

I think many trads are attracted to his willingness to "tell it like it is" as ggreg said. And many people of all stripes dislike his utterly nutty conspiracy theories, antisemitic remarks, and other firebrand remarks against anyone non-sspx.

I think what this proves is that in the Church, we are so starved for clergymen who will "tell it like it is" that we will listen to anyone who is so disposed, even to the point of overlooking his crackpot notions.

Anyway, we can all pray for him, as I am sure he would want us to.

[Archbishop_10K]

If ever a department were set up every Jew in this country would have to be incarcerated.

Even children?

I think this quote demonstrates the purpose of the rule.

Is it really that inconceivable to figure that the average Jew living across the street is just.... an ordinary person?

[46yw254qy43y5q]

If ever a department were set up every Jew in this country would have to be incarcerated.

Even children?

I think this quote demonstrates the purpose of the rule.

No, I would never put someones in jail for not believing in Christ, or for mere hatred of Christians. The point is that if ever Jews become powerful enough to incarcerate gentiles for believing in Christ they most certainly would.

Archbishop, the criticisms of Jews I've seen on this forum come out of a feeling for truth and charity. I've seen many nasty remarks about Muslims and other groups and few seem to mind.

[Archbishop_10K]

No, I would never put someones in jail for not believing in Christ, or for mere hatred of Christians.

That's good. Though, sad to say, some people would love to do that.

The point is that if ever Jews become powerful enough to incarcerate gentiles for believing in Christ they most certainly would.

Archbishop, the criticisms of Jews I've seen on this forum come out of a feeling for truth and charity. I've seen many nasty remarks about Muslims and other groups and few seem to mind.

I've seen a little of both. People can criticize Talmudism all they want, and I couldn't care less (as long as the criticisms are true). Criticizing "Jews", though, is just way too inclusive. It's not limited to just religious Jews, or just secular Jews, or just Zionists, or just conspirators, but every person who falls under the word "Jew"; including the millions of Jews who don't have anything to do with any of the discussions that go around on this forum, but are associated only by ethnic descent.

Few mind the remarks against Muslims because it's understood that "Muslims" refers only to practicing Muslims, not just people of Arab or Persian descent.

[46yw254qy43y5q]

No, I would never put someones in jail for not believing in Christ, or for mere hatred of Christians.

That's good. Though, sad to say, some people would love to do that.

The point is that if ever Jews become powerful enough to incarcerate gentiles for believing in Christ they most certainly would.

Archbishop, the criticisms of Jews I've seen on this forum come out of a feeling for truth and charity. I've seen many nasty remarks about Muslims and other groups and few seem to mind.

I've seen a little of both. People can criticize Talmudism all they want, and I couldn't care less (as long as the criticisms are true). Criticizing "Jews", though, is just way too inclusive. It's not limited to just religious Jews, or just secular Jews, or just Zionists, or just conspirators, but every person who falls under the word "Jew"; including the millions of Jews who don't have anything to do with any of the discussions that go around on this forum, but are associated only by ethnic descent.

Few mind the remarks against Muslims because it's understood that "Muslims" refers only to practicing Muslims, not just people of Arab or Persian descent.

Let me tell you how I define a Jew. Jews are people who define themselves as Jews. When someone identifies themself as a Jew they automatically tap themselves into currents that are, among other things, anti-Catholic. Therefore, by this reasoning, all Jews are anti-Catholic. If my reasoning is wrong please tell me why.

[StrictCatholicGirl]

It's a weird concept that, while it's wrong for gentiles to think of Jews as a monolithic entity, it's ok for Jews to think of themselves that way. Because they most certainly do, and it's not as a result of persecution, but comes from a shared feeling of superiority to the gentiles that surround them.

 

I disagree that it has to do with a feeling of superiority. And it IS "okay" for a minority group (like African Americans, for example) to "stick together." Certainly you can understand that concept.

 

I am in favor of referring to the Jewish people as a whole when it comes to praying for their salvation. Same goes for the Moslems and Buddhists and Protestants. I believe ALL non-Catholics should become Catholic.

 

However.....

 

Outside of that context, we deal with individuals. Jewish people are people just like anyone else. You've got good ones and bad ones. You even have some who convert to Catholicism, like my grandfather, who was baptized before he died. But on a purely human level, he was always a hard-working, honest, gentle person. He was a wonderful grandfather. He married my grandmother, a Catholic, and supported her in raising the children Catholic. So I don't like hearing about "the perfidious Christian-hating Jews." I know at least one Jew who wasn't.

 

- Lisa

[46yw254qy43y5q]

It's a weird concept that, while it's wrong for gentiles to think of Jews as a monolithic entity, it's ok for Jews to think of themselves that way. Because they most certainly do, and it's not as a result of persecution, but comes from a shared feeling of superiority to the gentiles that surround them.

 

I disagree that it has to do with a feeling of superiority. And it IS "okay" for a minority group (like African Americans, for example) to "stick together." Certainly you can understand that concept.

 

I am in favor of referring to the Jewish people as a whole when it comes to praying for their salvation. Same goes for the Moslems and Buddhists and Protestants. I believe ALL non-Catholics should become Catholic.

 

However.....

 

Outside of that context, we deal with individuals. Jewish people are people just like anyone else. You've got good ones and bad ones. You even have some who convert to Catholicism, like my grandfather, who was baptized before he died. But on a purely human level, he was always a hard-working, honest, gentle person. He was a wonderful grandfather. He married my grandmother, a Catholic, and supported her in raising the children Catholic. So I don't like hearing about "the perfidious Christian-hating Jews." I know at least one Jew who wasn't.

 

- Lisa

Strictcatholic, I'm sure he was a wonderful grandfather to you and I'm glad that he converted. I don't think of Jews as having horns coming out of their foreheads. I grew up with Jews, shared sandboxes with them, and have had Jewish friends. Who knows, maybe some of my ancestors practiced Judaism. On a practical day to day level the Jews one is likely to come across are no worse, in practical terms, than the gentile ones. In practical terms. But in spiritual terms Jews are a dead end. And they actively, as a group, support trends that seek to make the world an even more uncomfortable place for Catholics than it already is. Surely you would agree since you would like to see Jews convert to Catholicism.  This must be because you believe they are spiritually sick. Otherwise they wouldn't need Christ.

I wouldn't even bother speaking against the Jews, because they don't interest me all that much. But some people on this forum have an interest in insinuating that gentiles and Catholics, in particular, have no legitimate reason for distrusting Jews. And I think that is ludicrous.

[littleway]

Maldon,
Well done for "telling it like it is" yourself! It's true - too many people are so attracted to the Bishop for sometime truly and sometimes only SEEMINGLY "telling it like it is" that they are willing to allow the most disturbing things to pass as valid, and sometimes even subscribe to the disturbing things.

I don't know if Robb got his ideas from Bishop Williamson or just from the same sources as the Bishop, but it certainly is pretty much word for word what the Bishop said in some parts of his address that I referred to earlier (I still have it on tape somewhere, so could quote from it if I could handle hearing it again). To 99% of people, a lot of that stuff is so glaringly exaggerated, prejudiced and illogical that it's no wonder debates like this end up happening. Let's face it - if the Bishop or any past clergy hadn't said a lot of bunk, people with a clear head wouldn't react so passionately to that bunk. It's exactly the same as reacting against the bunk often spoken by liberal clergy in the name of Catholicism - you want the TRUTH from clergy, not a lot of errors and subjective opinions and nonsense. If they said the truth to begin with, it would be edifying, but because they mixed some truth up with absolute rubbish and mixed up religious morality with fallen human sins/ errors, the sins/ errors get focused on, which does no good for anyone, apart from the good of pointing them out and defending the truth. And, if anything, Bishop Williamson deserves more criticism for his errors than most, because he spends most of his time criticizing the errors of others, as if he alone is the bearer of truth in a mad world. When someone is making such claims, and is being held in such regard by others, it's no wonder his mistakes are jumped on. Unfortunately, some see all criticism levelled at him as evidence that he is being "persecuted" for speaking the truth, rather than criticized for distorting or mishandling the truth.

[littleway]

Sorry, but just one example of what both Robb and Bishop Williamson said which is taken by both of them as gospel truth, but which is taken by most people as just plain weird. The idea that "the Holocaust has replaced the crucifixion as the central tragedy of human history". It has??? Who says so??? What does that comment even mean??? How can it be seen as anything but a ridiculously half-baked opinion? But just because the Bishop said it grandly one day (or maybe someone before him - I wouldn't care if it was a Saint that said it) and because it sounds zippy and hard-hitting and "intellectual", some people rush to add it to their store of "wisdom"! In reality it's like something a cocky, pretentious high-school kid might say in a class discussion!

[Marybonita]

 you want the TRUTH from clergy, not a lot of errors and subjective opinions and nonsense.

There has been a lot of objective documentation that Talmudic Jews have been the instigators of many movements against the Church. They have even been accused by those within their own ranks.

The Apostles were the first to do so.

~In JMJ