TrentCath
Banned for name-calling, rudeness, and general smartassery
Gold Fish
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« Reply #170 on: April 21, 2012, 07:52:PM » |
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No it isn't. Please don't attempt to make use of my words to support your specious, nutty, theologically ignorant, historically obtuse, liturgically inept, spiritually vacuous sedevacantist ravings.
That is probably the    I have seen of sedevacantism |
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Stubborn
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« Reply #171 on: April 21, 2012, 07:58:PM » |
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Every Mass is of infinite value since it is the Sacrifice of Calvary. To claim it is worth less than infinity is blasphemy. And sacrilege to boot. (In other words, NOT Catholic.)  You perfectly describe the NOM. It is, as you say, blasphemous and a sacrilege. No it isn't. Please don't attempt to make use of my words to support your specious, nutty, theologically ignorant, historically obtuse, liturgically inept, spiritually vacuous sedevacantist ravings. Huh? Here I'm thinking you understood there was a crisis. Then why are you even here? - to mock the Holy Sacrifice same as the NOM does? |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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Stubborn
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« Reply #172 on: April 21, 2012, 07:59:PM » |
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No it isn't. Please don't attempt to make use of my words to support your specious, nutty, theologically ignorant, historically obtuse, liturgically inept, spiritually vacuous sedevacantist ravings.
That is probably the I have seen of sedevacantism This x a million! |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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TrentCath
Banned for name-calling, rudeness, and general smartassery
Gold Fish
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Posts: 3,553
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« Reply #173 on: April 21, 2012, 08:00:PM » |
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No it isn't. Please don't attempt to make use of my words to support your specious, nutty, theologically ignorant, historically obtuse, liturgically inept, spiritually vacuous sedevacantist ravings.
That is probably the I have seen of sedevacantism This x a million! For the record I wasn't saying that was a bad thing  |
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JuniorCouncilor
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« Reply #174 on: April 21, 2012, 08:03:PM » |
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It might be worthwhile to mention Eastern Orthodox Masses, here. They are, of course, valid. But they are also, in some sense, sacrilegious. I don't think any claim that just because a Mass is valid, it is pleasing to God is going to hold up.
Certainly it's pleasing to God insofar as it is the act of His beloved Son. But I believe it's a recurring theme of Sacred Scripture that God prefers obedience to sacrifice.
So do we say that such Masses (valid, but illicit) have an infinite value? Certainly they do, in themselves. Nevertheless, it is sinful for the priest to celebrate them, and as such, one must suppose it would be better if they were never celebrated.
Remember that every mortal sin also has an infinite value, in the sense that it offends the infinite majesty of God. As such, a valid but illicit Mass may have an infinite value and an infinite devalue (for lack of a better term). I find it hard to see how one can argue that the net effect is good.
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John Matthews
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Stubborn
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« Reply #175 on: April 21, 2012, 08:09:PM » |
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It might be worthwhile to mention Eastern Orthodox Masses, here. They are, of course, valid. But they are also, in some sense, sacrilegious. I don't think any claim that just because a Mass is valid, it is pleasing to God is going to hold up.
Certainly it's pleasing to God insofar as it is the act of His beloved Son. But I believe it's a recurring theme of Sacred Scripture that God prefers obedience to sacrifice.
So do we say that such Masses (valid, but illicit) have an infinite value? Certainly they do, in themselves. Nevertheless, it is sinful for the priest to celebrate them, and as such, one must suppose it would be better if they were never celebrated.
Remember that every mortal sin also has an infinite value, in the sense that it offends the infinite majesty of God. As such, a valid but illicit Mass may have an infinite value and an infinite devalue (for lack of a better term). I find it hard to see how one can argue that the net effect is good.
"Validity" is not synonymous with "acceptable" no matter how bad the NO crowd wants it to be..............not saying you're part of that crowd because I have no idea - but either way, "validity" is not synonymous with "acceptable" - never has been, never will be. |
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 08:11:PM by Stubborn »
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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Stubborn
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« Reply #176 on: April 21, 2012, 08:11:PM » |
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No it isn't. Please don't attempt to make use of my words to support your specious, nutty, theologically ignorant, historically obtuse, liturgically inept, spiritually vacuous sedevacantist ravings.
That is probably the I have seen of sedevacantism This x a million! For the record I wasn't saying that was a bad thing Understood. For the record, people's thinking as regards SVism is as completely screwed up as it is regarding the NO - IOW, there is a vast gulf of misunderstanding on both accounts. |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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Phillipus Iacobus
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« Reply #177 on: April 21, 2012, 08:20:PM » |
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Are people going to take a jab at sedevacantism and sedevacantists at every chance they get now?
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Phillipus Iacobus
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« Reply #178 on: April 21, 2012, 08:22:PM » |
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For the record, people's thinking as regards SVism is as completely screwed up as it is regarding the NO - IOW, there is a vast gulf of misunderstanding on both accounts.
Stubborn, I am interested in hearing what you have to say. |
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Stubborn
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« Reply #179 on: April 21, 2012, 08:43:PM » |
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For the record, people's thinking as regards SVism is as completely screwed up as it is regarding the NO - IOW, there is a vast gulf of misunderstanding on both accounts.
Stubborn, I am interested in hearing what you have to say. It's very simple actually - sede's sense of truth and justice is beyond reproach imo - at least as a rule - however, I personally believe they are wrong lol..............................because the pope, being human, can be scandalous same as any human yet remain supreme ruler same as any human supreme ruler. The only exception would be when the pope speaks ex-cathedra, same as when any pope speaks ex-cathedra. Either way, being supreme ruler, there is no authority on earth able to dethrone him - thankfully - BECAUSE if anyone could dethrone the pope, good popes would be able to be dethroned too. The NO is the "Elephant in the room" - iow, CITH, EMHC, NOM, etc. ad nausem are all products of the enemy, aka the "Elephant in the room" - as such, no matter how people choose to justify their own beliefs, the goal of the "Elephant in the room" was, is and always will be the destruction of souls. No one has ever been able to dispute this truth with anything other than the false belief that the pope is the Church and the Church cannot promulgate error - as though we are not in a crisis for the last 50 years. |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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