Why I left the SSPX

[ggreg]

I, for one, will say this: I have been associated with the SSPX for 10 years and admire them and their priests, and am grateful for what they have done, and continue to do, in service of the Faith and the Tridentine Mass. I do not pretend to agree with every one of their positions - which in themselves do not bind anyone - let alone the opinions of all their bishops, priests or lay faithful in their chapels. In fact, I strongly disagree with many. Fortunately, the majority of the SSPX-supporting laity I have met (admittedly not a great number), are mainly just devout Catholics looking for a place to keep their Faith. However, the overall impression one gets from Trad forums is of the stereotype SSPXer - whom, unfortunately, I have also met in real life - bitter and twisted, cynical, self-righteous, neo-Jansenistic, crypto-sedevacantist Puritans who lash out at anyone who dares disagree with their little group, and calumniates anyone outside the SSPX milieu, especially those who choose to leave it, as quislings, compromising faint-hearts, neo-cons who just love smells and bells and Latin and lace, etc, etc. This "extra SSPX nulla salus" mentality is sick sick sick. Fortunately, in my own chapel, only a few conform to this stereotype, and most do not. I imagine this is the case in most places.

In digesting your point here this is what I umderstamd: although the laity who frequent the same Society chapel as you do don't fit this steriotype and you have met very few in fact who do so yet you feel compelled to point out that the Society laity in general are "bitter, twisted, cynical, self-righteous, neo-Jansenistic, Crypto-sedevacantist Puritans" and are "sick sick sick".

I hope that you don't mind if I feel somehow offended by this.

I think the poster means that all the kooks and nutters are posting on Internet forums and all the sensible balanced people have better things to do with their day.  Probably fair.

[StevusMagnus]

See what I mean, no charity!

Neel is not SSPX.

[StevusMagnus]

OVER-GENERALIZATION ALERT:
I don't have a broad experience with the FSSP, I only know my local FSSP parish.  But from that experience, they're a lot more interested in forming good Catholics than fighting Church politics.  I've heard the CMRI is like this as well-- it's not about "railing against specific things", they're in the soul-saving business not the polemics business.

Again, I don't have a very wide perspective on this subject, but I don't get the impression that the SSPX operates this way; they're Catholic and pissed about it.

gj,

At the local SSPX Chapel here I have no heard any railing on the Pope or NO. Their primary focus is saving souls as well. However, occassionally you will hear sermons (as I have on line) referring to the crisis. But not just condemning everyone, but explaining why certain things are horrible that are being allowed in the NO, why they are horrible and don't accord with Tradition etc. Things that would get them suspended if they dared to mention inside the NO Church. But they point these things out in sorrow and ask for reparation and prayers that they end. They aren't reveling with glee at the Church's destruction.

[gjwalberg]

OVER-GENERALIZATION ALERT:
I don't have a broad experience with the FSSP, I only know my local FSSP parish.  But from that experience, they're a lot more interested in forming good Catholics than fighting Church politics.  I've heard the CMRI is like this as well-- it's not about "railing against specific things", they're in the soul-saving business not the polemics business.

Again, I don't have a very wide perspective on this subject, but I don't get the impression that the SSPX operates this way; they're Catholic and pissed about it.

gj,

At the local SSPX Chapel here I have no heard any railing on the Pope or NO. Their primary focus is saving souls as well. However, occassionally you will hear sermons (as I have on line) referring to the crisis. But not just condemning everyone, but explaining why certain things are horrible that are being allowed in the NO, why they are horrible and don't accord with Tradition etc. Things that would get them suspended if they dared to mention inside the NO Church. But they point these things out in sorrow and ask for reparation and prayers that they end. They aren't reveling with glee at the Church's destruction.

In my short time at FishEaters, I'm coming to the conclusion that most of us-- when trying to describe the problems with the Church, the FSSP, the Novus Ordo, the SSPX, bishops, priests, religious, whatever-- are like the story of the blind men describing the elephant.  We all see our little part and think we know what the elephant in the room is really like.

We know our parish or maybe a few parishes around us.  Sometimes we've only been to one or a few Masses at a particular place or with a particular priest.  We may know our diocese, or even a neighboring diocese.  But like my experience with the SSPX is mostly confined to the SSPXers on FE (most of whom are exceedily poor representatives of the congregations' alleged charity); I think your (and others') characterizations of things that would get diocesean priests suspended is a pretty small pigeonhole.

A priest can get away with a lot of tradition in my neighboring diocese, the bishop offers the TLM in the diocesan cathedral (albeit infrequently).

So I will admit that I don't know if the priests "condemn everyone".  But I've heard a fair amount of Bp. Williamson sermons and I'll tell you that I don't think he's capable of offering a sermon without polemics.  He's the babbling, vitriolic, unshuttable mouthpiece of the SSPX.  People say he's actually funny and charming in real life, I've never met the guy and am quite unlikely to do so-- so I'll let his sermons speak for him.

Edit: grammar and clarity

[StevusMagnus]

I'd encourage you to listen to Bishop Fellay's talks for a contrast.

Bishop Wiliamson is the most controversial and sometimes the harshest against the NO.

But he is just one Bishop.

Just imagine what your opinion of the NO Church would be if you listened to nothing but homilies of Cardinal Mahoney!

Bishop Fellay is the Superior General. I'd listen to mp3's of his conferences online or video on You Tube! I think he is more representative of most SSPX clergy in speaking of the crisis.

[gjwalberg]

Bishop Wiliamson is the most controversial and sometimes the harshest against the NO.

But he is just one Bishop.

  There's only four of them!

[Marybonita]

I think the poster means that all the kooks and nutters are posting on Internet forums and all the sensible balanced people have better things to do with their day.  Probably fair.
 
I simply can't agree with this. From what I have experienced with other laity posting on the forums I have always admired the charity and restraint of Society people.

Can you give me just one example of the Neo-Jansenist ESNS (Extra Societus Nulla Salus) mentality of which Society people are accused. Having spent a few years now on various forums I have just not seen it. Atheists are positively the worst opponents with the neo-modernists on the other emd of the spectrum. Either way - Yikes!

As for posting on the internet it's a great way to reach people. Every poster is not a "nut". Those with something to say see it as an apostolate. I think that is legitimate.

~In JMJ

[ggreg]

I was being sarcastic. My apologies for not putting a health warning on it.

That said I can give you at least ten examples.  Parishoners being denounced from the pulpit, priests being hounded out of the SSPX or treated in the most disgusting way by their superiors (Fr. John Rizzo) in 1993. Whether I should or not is another matter.  The trouble is that firstly I have no way of prooving those examples other than my own testimony of what I witnessed.  Secondly people can claim they are isolated incidents and do not mean that the whole SSPX is like that (a valid argument, to a point).  Thirdly, we have to go to mass somewhere and all told the SSPX does a good job of providing the Mass and the sacraments.  These incidents are in my experience frequent and obvious enough for those who want to see them and for those who don't no amount of reported cases will convince them.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, and anything put forward will just be questioned as a false testimony from me so why bother.  I didn't have a video camera on me at the time they happened and, frankly, if a Nazi salute can be written off as a perfectly innocent 2000 year old European gesture of greeting then even video evidence won't cut it for those who don't wish to believe it.

[StevusMagnus]

Bishop Wiliamson is the most controversial and sometimes the harshest against the NO.

But he is just one Bishop.

  There's only four of them!

True, but he is still only one voice and he seems to be the only one you're hearing.

Give Bishop Fellay a try!

[Heinrich]

I actually I was a member of a church of the SSPX. I belonged to St. Pius X Church in Cincinatti. How about you check the facts before spouting off at the mouth.

Isn't it Cincinnati?

YES! The Queen City! (Homer Simpson voice)WOO HOO!

So where do you go now? To space ship, rock mass St. Ignatius? Don't you know that the Catholicism you found in Northside every Sunday is what built that city into the gem that it was? And I use the past tense because you know the rot and decay that exists in the once great neighborhoods there. Although the west side babes are still smokin'.(Here's looking at you, Lisa!)