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Author Topic: "Turn By Your Left"  (Read 1164 times)
7HolyCats
Member

Posts: 1,040


« on: October 15, 2008, 02:05:AM »

What does "turn by your left" mean? I've seen this phrase only in a few server's manuals (and indeed, only a few things come up when I google it) and it seems like a really oblique construction. Does "turn by" your left actually mean turn right?

Because when they say it, it is to avoid turning your back to the cross or tabernacle (the liturgical East), but in all those cases it would make sense for me to say "turn right". For example, when you put the Missal on the altar at the beginning you turn around to the right to go down the side steps, and then it says "turn by your left" but at this point...when you are facing South at the bottom of the side-steps, you need to turn right 90-degrees to walk forward, turn right again 90-degrees at the corner to cross the middle and take your place on the Gospel side.

And I dont think they mean turn 270-degrees left to get yourself facing forward, do they??? Because the end result in this case has you walking out towards the nave (and thus with your back briefly to the East) either way.

I've also heard rules about "sweeping into" the north wall and "not sweeping away from" the East wall, about always "sweeping the congregation towards the plane of the altar, but never the plane of the altar towards the congregation"...but sometimes that is manifestly not done, in order to avoid unnecessary back-towards-the-East, as for example, after you put down the Missal on the Gospel side...you walk down to the first step, and then turn 180 to your right, which avoids turning your back to the altar wall, but which is also "sweeps out" the altar instead of in...

The etiquette (and geometry) of these turns while serving has me a bit confuzzled. They dont seem to write the instructions very well.
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Steven
Member

Posts: 239


Itinerant Altar Server


« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 01:00:AM »

I could be wrong on any of these issues, so feel free to correct me. Smile

    The understanding I have of the phrase "turn by your left" is that you are to make the 270 degree turn.  At least, that's what I do.  The point is not necessarily to not turn your back to the East, but rather to not turn your back to the Crucifix, and the Altar as a whole.  You place the Missal on the Altar, and then turn right and descend to the bottom of the steps.  If you turn right again, you'll be putting your back to the Altar at some point during the turn.  If, however, you make the 270 degree turn to the left, you will never put your back to the Altar.

    As far as the sweeping goes, I haven't heard of that before honestly, outside of the servers turning inwards towards each other when turning around.  Also, I was under the impression that you were to turn by your right when by yourself.  I would say that the rule about not putting your back to the Altar takes precedence though, because while the former is an issue of visuals, the latter is an issue of reverence.  However, I know that during the Offertory when the servers leave the Altar to go to the Credence after bringing up the cruets, they turn inwards towards each other (which means that the 2nd Acolyte will put his back to the Altar).

    Perhaps, when with another server you turn inwards, and when by yourself you turn right 'so long as it does not put your back to the Altar'.  Perhaps.  Someone else with more knowledge could probably clarify this better than I can. Smile

    In Christo Rege et Maria Regina,
        ~Steven
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"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church -- which is, of course, quite a different thing." -Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

"Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity." -Fr. John Hardon, S.J.
7HolyCats
Member

Posts: 1,040


« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 07:38:AM »

Quote
The understanding I have of the phrase "turn by your left" is that you are to make the 270 degree turn.  At least, that's what I do.  The point is not necessarily to not turn your back to the East, but rather to not turn your back to the Crucifix, and the Altar as a whole.  You place the Missal on the Altar, and then turn right and descend to the bottom of the steps.  If you turn right again, you'll be putting your back to the Altar at some point during the turn.  If, however, you make the 270 degree turn to the left, you will never put your back to the Altar.

But is that true? It seems to me that when you descend the epistle-side steps (having turned 180 to the right to avoid turning your back to the East/crucifix/tabernacle...in that case the choice is more clear), both an immediate 90-degree right-hand turn at the bottom of the epistle-side steps, and a 270-degree turn...both end with you facing the congregation (and thus not the altar), both accomplish the same thing...and the 90 doesnt particularly have any point where your back is to the altar otherwise, whereas the 270 just seems superfluous.

Or no?

Anyone know?
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Steven
Member

Posts: 239


Itinerant Altar Server


« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2008, 08:02:PM »

Quote from: 7HolyCats
But is that true? It seems to me that when you descend the epistle-side steps (having turned 180 to the right to avoid turning your back to the East/crucifix/tabernacle...in that case the choice is more clear), both an immediate 90-degree right-hand turn at the bottom of the epistle-side steps, and a 270-degree turn...both end with you facing the congregation (and thus not the altar), both accomplish the same thing...and the 90 doesnt particularly have any point where your back is to the altar otherwise, whereas the 270 just seems superfluous.

Or no?

Anyone know?

Once again, I don't think the problem is with putting your back to the East, but rather with putting your back to the Altar.    Let me illustrate it:

-The rectangle is the Altar.
-The blue square is the Altar Crucifix.
-The the black square is you, and the gold side of the square is your back.
-The purple lines are the start and end of the turn.
-The green arrows are the direction of the turn.

Here is a right turn:


Notice that as you make that turn, your back will be put towards the Altar or Crucifix.

Here is a left turn:


Notice that, while you end facing West with your back towards the East, your back is never put towards the Altar or Crucifix.

Hope this helps.

    In Christo Rege et Maria Regina,
        ~Steven
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"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church -- which is, of course, quite a different thing." -Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

"Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity." -Fr. John Hardon, S.J.
7HolyCats
Member

Posts: 1,040


« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2008, 08:55:PM »

Hmm. Interesting. Maybe.

But how exactly are you defining "back to the crucifix" if not the same as "back to the east"?

I mean...it seems to me that in both pictures...even if we take "back to altar" to imply "from whatever side of the rectangle you're on"...it seems like you are then STARTING with your back already to the altar in both your pictures, from the necessity of walking down the epistle-side stairs...

Unless you're saying that "back to" means that a line going straight out the back of your butt, as it were...would not hit the crucifix. Maybe that is the definition? Is that what you're saying: your back should never cross through the line connecting you and the crucifix? You should never be facing the same direction as the ray starting with the crucifix and going out through you?

And that in your first picture this occurs roughly half way or one-third of the way through the 90-degree turn??
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Steven
Member

Posts: 239


Itinerant Altar Server


« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2008, 09:43:PM »

Exactly!  The line extending straight out of your back is what's important.

Yes, it's about one-third of the way through, in my picture.  I had initially drawn a red line to show that, but I thought the image was a little too cluttered so I removed it.

Once again though, while this is how I've come to understand it with the studying I've done, I could be wrong.  If anyone else would like to verify or correct what I've said, that would be wonderful. Smile

    In Christo Rege et Maria Regina,
        ~Steven
Logged

"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church -- which is, of course, quite a different thing." -Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

"Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity." -Fr. John Hardon, S.J.
Steven
Member

Posts: 239


Itinerant Altar Server


« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2008, 10:04:PM »

I also thought I might add that there are other rules also that complicate this further, such as the aforementioned "Turn inwards towards the other server", and also about turning towards the celebrant instead of away from him.

If you look in this following video you'll notice that during the Vidi Aquam, as the celebrant turns the Deacon and Subdeacon stay to his side and move as one unit (which makes one of them have to move backwards), whereas the server turns around and walks forward (since you're normally not supposed to walk backwards).   Notice though that when the server turns, he put his back to the Altar, but makes sure not to put his back to the celebrant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6AOvStZS64

I can't tell you which one takes precedence when there's a conflict, and it may be that in some circumstances one does, and in other circumstances the other does.   Someone else will need to clarify this. Smile

I pray that I've helped, and not just confused you further!

    In Christo Rege et Maria Regina,
        ~Steven
Logged

"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church -- which is, of course, quite a different thing." -Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

"Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity." -Fr. John Hardon, S.J.
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