Fr. Fitzpatrick vs. Fr. Scott on Validity of SSPX Confessions

[glgas]

Common sense and the Church have always taught that we should stay away from people with a heretical mindset. It is only normal that one should go to a priest of the SSPX for the Sacraments.

St Francis Assisi, Raymondus Nonnantus cames to my mind, who went to the Muslims. Many Jesuits martyrs went to the protestant areas, and were canonized for that.

In other hand, the servant who get his mina and buried it, was rejected by his lord.

May be you shold reconsider your thesis. The Church has mission toward the whole world, the theoretical denial of this mission (e.g. claiming it number game) is wrong.

[Stubborn]

Good heavens. Any validly ordained priest will administer a valid Sacrament of Penance - regardless of jurisdiction.

We are in emergency times man!

Details details details.............go with the surest thing - any priest ordained pre-V2!

[nsper7]

Good heavens. Any validly ordained priest will administer a valid Sacrament of Penance - regardless of jurisdiction.

We are in emergency times man!

Details details details.............go with the surest thing - any priest ordained pre-V2!

Not according to Church authorities. Except during an emergency, the Sacrament of Penance requires that the confecting Priest. How does it work BTW If a Priest with jurisdiction and faculties from his own Ordinary is visiting/traveling through another Diocese? Obviously, in an emergency (i.e. they see a serious car accident on the highway or something), they can always administer the Sacraments to said victim.

The thing is that, although SSPX Bishop are valid Bishops (even when they were still under a ban of excommunication, they were valid Bishops), they are not Ordinaries since the SSPX lacks Canonical recognition.

[Stubborn]

Good heavens. Any validly ordained priest will administer a valid Sacrament of Penance - regardless of jurisdiction.

We are in emergency times man!

Details details details.............go with the surest thing - any priest ordained pre-V2!

Not according to Church authorities. Except during an emergency, the Sacrament of Penance requires that the confecting Priest. How does it work BTW If a Priest with jurisdiction and faculties from his own Ordinary is visiting/traveling through another Diocese? Obviously, in an emergency (i.e. they see a serious car accident on the highway or something), they can always administer the Sacraments to said victim.

The thing is that, although SSPX Bishop are valid Bishops (even when they were still under a ban of excommunication, they were valid Bishops), they are not Ordinaries since the SSPX lacks Canonical recognition.

Not according to what Church authorities??

NSPR7, do you  - or can you understand or comprehend that your "Church authorities" (Bishops, Archbishops, Cardinals and Priests) are to be assumed enemies of Christ - NOT the other way around?

[glgas]

The thing is that, although SSPX Bishop are valid Bishops (even when they were still under a ban of excommunication, they were valid Bishops), they are not Ordinaries since the SSPX lacks Canonical recognition.

A bishop has two kinf of power: the power for valid ordination, which is the sacramental power; and the power to govern people, his diocese, this is the jurisdictional power. The SSPX bishops do not have this jurisdictional power, so they cannot share it with their priests.

Absolution and witnessing marriage requires jurisdictional power. Case of emergency is deathbed or may be absolute unavailability of priest with proper jurisdiction (nuclear war wipes out the continent, one priest w/o proper jurisdiction and a few faithful survive)

Simply claim the the mystical body of Jesus Christ the Church is heretic, and only they represent the Catholic faith does not supply jurisdiction.

[JMartyr]

The thing is that, although SSPX Bishop are valid Bishops (even when they were still under a ban of excommunication, they were valid Bishops), they are not Ordinaries since the SSPX lacks Canonical recognition.

A bishop has two kinf of power: the power for valid ordination, which is the sacramental power; and the power to govern people, his diocese, this is the jurisdictional power. The SSPX bishops do not have this jurisdictional power, so they cannot share it with their priests.

Absolution and witnessing marriage requires jurisdictional power. Case of emergency is deathbed or may be absolute unavailability of priest with proper jurisdiction (nuclear war wipes out the continent, one priest w/o proper jurisdiction and a few faithful survive)

Simply claim the the mystical body of Jesus Christ the Church is heretic, and only they represent the Catholic faith does not supply jurisdiction.

Look up canon 1335 and canon 144

[JMartyr]

Wouldn't common sense dictate that if there is even the slightest iota of question about the validity of SSPX Confessions, then find a Priest in good standing with Rome who has ordinary faculties to hear Confessions. Even if said Priest holds to some wonky (read: "progressive"/modernist/heterodox) ideas, my understanding is that their Absolutions are still valid, but you might want to take their counsel with a few grains of salt. Remember that if a Priest gives you liberal/progressive/modernist/heterodox advice or counsel (or any other type of counsel or advice) in the Confessional, you are free to heed or reject as you please. It is only the assigned Penance that must be completed.

Common sense and the Church have always taught that we should stay away from people with a heretical mindset. It is only normal that one should go to a priest of the SSPX for the Sacraments.

Regardless of the mindset of the Priest, the question is do they possess Ordinary jurisdiction and the faculties to hear Confessions and give Absolutions? The SSPX lack this.

If the church was not in a crisis, they would have faculties.Canon 1335 and canon 144 supply the faculties.
[

My understanding is that the members of the Church hierarchy who have the authority to...well...authoritatively interpret Canon Law disagree with the SSPX's view. It seems like one is treading on extremely thin ice by buying into such claims by the SSPX.

I agree that in normal times one should not go to suspended priests. But why are they suspended? They don't accept the NO and that Vatican 2 was nothing more than a pastoral council. Both have been disasterous for the Church. Some people pretend otherwise. I do not want to become protestant. To be normalised by church authorities, you have to accept the revolution in the church. How can this be right?

My understanding is that you can still fulfill the Sunday obligation at an SSPX Mass, but just stay away from their Confessional and go to a Priest with Ordinary jurisdiction/proper faculties.

Cardinal Hoyos of Eclesia Dei said only out of ignorance one may go to SSPX priest and sights canon 144, The commentary on canon law gives a much wider interpretation of this canon. In my opinion he is no being honest. http://www.buy.com/prod/new-commentary-on-the-code-of-canon-law/q/loc/106/30831018.html     

[nsper7]

Wouldn't common sense dictate that if there is even the slightest iota of question about the validity of SSPX Confessions, then find a Priest in good standing with Rome who has ordinary faculties to hear Confessions. Even if said Priest holds to some wonky (read: "progressive"/modernist/heterodox) ideas, my understanding is that their Absolutions are still valid, but you might want to take their counsel with a few grains of salt. Remember that if a Priest gives you liberal/progressive/modernist/heterodox advice or counsel (or any other type of counsel or advice) in the Confessional, you are free to heed or reject as you please. It is only the assigned Penance that must be completed.

Common sense and the Church have always taught that we should stay away from people with a heretical mindset. It is only normal that one should go to a priest of the SSPX for the Sacraments.

Regardless of the mindset of the Priest, the question is do they possess Ordinary jurisdiction and the faculties to hear Confessions and give Absolutions? The SSPX lack this.

If the church was not in a crisis, they would have faculties.Canon 1335 and canon 144 supply the faculties.

My understanding is that the members of the Church hierarchy who have the authority to...well...authoritatively interpret Canon Law disagree with the SSPX's view. It seems like one is treading on extremely thin ice by buying into such claims by the SSPX.

I agree that in normal times one should not go to suspended priests. But why are they suspended? They don't accept the NO and that Vatican 2 was nothing more than a pastoral council. Both have been disasterous for the Church. Some people pretend otherwise. I do not want to become protestant. To be normalised by church authorities, you have to accept the revolution in the church. How can this be right?

My understanding is that you can still fulfill the Sunday obligation at an SSPX Mass, but just stay away from their Confessional and go to a Priest with Ordinary jurisdiction/proper faculties.

Cardinal Hoyos of Eclesia Dei said only out of ignorance one may go to SSPX priest ans sights canon 144, The commentary on canon law gives a much wider interpretation of this canon. In my opinion he is no being honest.

Then His Eminence said you cannot go to an SSPX Mass to fulfill the Sunday obligation? That changes everything.

[JMartyr]

Wouldn't common sense dictate that if there is even the slightest iota of question about the validity of SSPX Confessions, then find a Priest in good standing with Rome who has ordinary faculties to hear Confessions. Even if said Priest holds to some wonky (read: "progressive"/modernist/heterodox) ideas, my understanding is that their Absolutions are still valid, but you might want to take their counsel with a few grains of salt. Remember that if a Priest gives you liberal/progressive/modernist/heterodox advice or counsel (or any other type of counsel or advice) in the Confessional, you are free to heed or reject as you please. It is only the assigned Penance that must be completed.

Common sense and the Church have always taught that we should stay away from people with a heretical mindset. It is only normal that one should go to a priest of the SSPX for the Sacraments.

Regardless of the mindset of the Priest, the question is do they possess Ordinary jurisdiction and the faculties to hear Confessions and give Absolutions? The SSPX lack this.

If the church was not in a crisis, they would have faculties.Canon 1335 and canon 144 supply the faculties.

My understanding is that the members of the Church hierarchy who have the authority to...well...authoritatively interpret Canon Law disagree with the SSPX's view. It seems like one is treading on extremely thin ice by buying into such claims by the SSPX.

I agree that in normal times one should not go to suspended priests. But why are they suspended? They don't accept the NO and that Vatican 2 was nothing more than a pastoral council. Both have been disasterous for the Church. Some people pretend otherwise. I do not want to become protestant. To be normalised by church authorities, you have to accept the revolution in the church. How can this be right?

My understanding is that you can still fulfill the Sunday obligation at an SSPX Mass, but just stay away from their Confessional and go to a Priest with Ordinary jurisdiction/proper faculties.

Cardinal Hoyos of Eclesia Dei said only out of ignorance one may go to SSPX priest ans sights canon 144, The commentary on canon law gives a much wider interpretation of this canon. In my opinion he is no being honest.

Then His Eminence said you cannot go to an SSPX Mass to fulfill the Sunday obligation? That changes everything.

NO, I MEANT TO PUT CONFESSION.

[nsper7]

Wouldn't common sense dictate that if there is even the slightest iota of question about the validity of SSPX Confessions, then find a Priest in good standing with Rome who has ordinary faculties to hear Confessions. Even if said Priest holds to some wonky (read: "progressive"/modernist/heterodox) ideas, my understanding is that their Absolutions are still valid, but you might want to take their counsel with a few grains of salt. Remember that if a Priest gives you liberal/progressive/modernist/heterodox advice or counsel (or any other type of counsel or advice) in the Confessional, you are free to heed or reject as you please. It is only the assigned Penance that must be completed.

Common sense and the Church have always taught that we should stay away from people with a heretical mindset. It is only normal that one should go to a priest of the SSPX for the Sacraments.

Regardless of the mindset of the Priest, the question is do they possess Ordinary jurisdiction and the faculties to hear Confessions and give Absolutions? The SSPX lack this.

If the church was not in a crisis, they would have faculties.Canon 1335 and canon 144 supply the faculties.

My understanding is that the members of the Church hierarchy who have the authority to...well...authoritatively interpret Canon Law disagree with the SSPX's view. It seems like one is treading on extremely thin ice by buying into such claims by the SSPX.

I agree that in normal times one should not go to suspended priests. But why are they suspended? They don't accept the NO and that Vatican 2 was nothing more than a pastoral council. Both have been disasterous for the Church. Some people pretend otherwise. I do not want to become protestant. To be normalised by church authorities, you have to accept the revolution in the church. How can this be right?

My understanding is that you can still fulfill the Sunday obligation at an SSPX Mass, but just stay away from their Confessional and go to a Priest with Ordinary jurisdiction/proper faculties.

Cardinal Hoyos of Eclesia Dei said only out of ignorance one may go to SSPX priest ans sights canon 144, The commentary on canon law gives a much wider interpretation of this canon. In my opinion he is no being honest.

Then His Eminence said you cannot go to an SSPX Mass to fulfill the Sunday obligation? That changes everything.

NO, I MEANT TO PUT CONFESSION.

KK. No need to yell.

Still, if Cardinal Hoyos of Ecclesia Dei says it is wrong to go to an SSPX Priest for Confession, then who are we to argue?