JMartyr
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« Reply #210 on: August 30, 2010, 04:37:AM » |
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C'mon glgas, the magisterium obliterated 2000 years of tradition when they brought in the new faith of the New Order.
A 7 year old child can tell you that is wrong no matter who is responsible for supporting, enforcing, promoting and promulgating it.
Wrong is wrong.
Did Jesus Christ celebrate the Last Supper according to the Tridentine Mass, or you do not take yourself and your own words seriously? In the reality the rite of the Mass was trusted to the dioceses until pope St Pius V, and varied accordingly. St Pius V made the liturgy frozen, St Pius X broke this freeze, and the melting started to involve the essential mass in 1962, when St Joseph was put into the Roman Canon (the propers started te change immediately after the first definition, and changed continuously) The mass developed over the centuries. Prayers were added to bring the doctrine of the true Presence more to the forfront. Prayers were never subtracted, except by the protestant heretics, who wanted the mass to be a simple memorial of a past event. The ancient Canon of the mass, which from what I have read , is at least from the time of ST. Gregory The Great or earlier.Adding St. Joseph to it and making it one out of four options is two totally different things.For you to say the reforms in the mass are ok is the same as saying the heretics were justified in changing the mass basically because the two are similar. |
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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Stubborn
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« Reply #211 on: August 30, 2010, 06:40:AM » |
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C'mon glgas, the magisterium obliterated 2000 years of tradition when they brought in the new faith of the New Order.
A 7 year old child can tell you that is wrong no matter who is responsible for supporting, enforcing, promoting and promulgating it.
Wrong is wrong.
Did Jesus Christ celebrate the Last Supper according to the Tridentine Mass, or you do not take yourself and your own words seriously? In the reality the rite of the Mass was trusted to the dioceses until pope St Pius V, and varied accordingly. St Pius V made the liturgy frozen, St Pius X broke this freeze, and the melting started to involve the essential mass in 1962, when St Joseph was put into the Roman Canon (the propers started te change immediately after the first definition, and changed continuously) Did Jesus Christ found a Church to teach, govern, sanctify and save all men till the end of time or did He found a Church that was to be around only until the 1960s, when teachings are ignored, governing is either non-existent or appears to be, sanctification is no longer necessary since all (except trads) are saved through belonging to the soul of the Church? |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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Exilenomore
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Munda cor meum
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« Reply #212 on: August 30, 2010, 10:08:AM » |
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It is a common mistake today to confuse liturgical development with the protestantisation thereof. I suppose it comes as a shock to some people, but it is not catholic (and never has been) to treat every single word and act of the Pope as a superdogma. Papal infallibility is bound to certain criteria and is not the same as ultramontanism. Nor is religious submission the same as the false obedience in coöperation of the destruction of the Church.
Fortunately, the gates of hell will not overwhelm the Church and this darkness will pass away when the modernistic novelties will be anathematised once more.
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As I have accepted the sede impedite position, I revoke my former posts which contained gallicanist tendencies.
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glgas
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« Reply #213 on: August 30, 2010, 01:32:PM » |
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Did Jesus Christ found a Church to teach, govern, sanctify and save all men till the end of time or did He found a Church that was to be around only until the 1960s, when teachings are ignored, governing is either non-existent or appears to be, sanctification is no longer necessary since all (except trads) are saved through belonging to the soul of the Church?
1./ Jesus Christ explicitly said that His Church shall teach and baptize (this govern) all people (Matt 28:18-20) 2. He explicitly said that his Church is centered around Peter (Matt 16:116-18), and the equivocal tradition added that this means Peter's successors the popes (e.g. DS 466) 3./ Jesus Christ approved the tradition, but explicitle rejected the traditionalists of His time (Matt 23) |
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Exilenomore
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Munda cor meum
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« Reply #214 on: August 30, 2010, 02:02:PM » |
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but explicitle rejected the traditionalists of His time (Matt 23)
Don't worry. I don't care if you don't wash your hands before eating. We are often accused of being pharisaïcal, yet the pharisees were those who preached lies so that they would not lose public recognition. The disciples of Christ, and He Himself were those who were scorned by all for the sake of truth. You will find no other group of people who is more faithful to the Pope and the Magisterium than the traditionalists, because you have to be a traditionalist to be catholic. |
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As I have accepted the sede impedite position, I revoke my former posts which contained gallicanist tendencies.
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JMartyr
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« Reply #215 on: August 30, 2010, 05:34:PM » |
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Did Jesus Christ found a Church to teach, govern, sanctify and save all men till the end of time or did He found a Church that was to be around only until the 1960s, when teachings are ignored, governing is either non-existent or appears to be, sanctification is no longer necessary since all (except trads) are saved through belonging to the soul of the Church?
1./ Jesus Christ explicitly said that His Church shall teach and baptize (this govern) all people (Matt 28:18-20) 2. He explicitly said that his Church is centered around Peter (Matt 16:116-18), and the equivocal tradition added that this means Peter's successors the popes (e.g. DS 466) 3./ Jesus Christ approved the tradition, but explicitle rejected the traditionalists of His time (Matt 23) Ridiculum est, et satis abominable dedecus, ut traditiones, quas antiquis a patribus suscepimus, infringi patiamur |
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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JMartyr
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« Reply #216 on: August 30, 2010, 05:47:PM » |
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« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 05:58:PM by Justin »
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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glgas
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« Reply #217 on: August 30, 2010, 06:53:PM » |
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Ridiculum est, et satis abominable dedecus, ut traditiones, quas antiquis a patribus suscepimus, infringi patiamur
The pharisees get their traditions from their fathers. As for the Chinese illicit ordinations the Apostolic See the pastoral handling of the case do not mean that they didctate to the Church, what to do. |
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JMartyr
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« Reply #218 on: August 30, 2010, 07:23:PM » |
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Ridiculum est, et satis abominable dedecus, ut traditiones, quas antiquis a patribus suscepimus, infringi patiamur
The pharisees get their traditions from their fathers. As for the Chinese illicit ordinations the Apostolic See the pastoral handling of the case do not mean that they didctate to the Church, what to do. The latin quote is from St. thomas. The web link was to show that the SSPX priests confessions are valid. |
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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glgas
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« Reply #219 on: August 30, 2010, 08:00:PM » |
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The latin quote is from St. thomas. The web link was to show that the SSPX priests confessions are valid.
I am almost sure that St Thomas did nor referred to the pharisee. Quotes have meaning only in the context The word confession is not found in the quoted document. |
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