JMartyr
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« Reply #220 on: August 31, 2010, 04:40:AM » |
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The latin quote is from St. thomas. The web link was to show that the SSPX priests confessions are valid.
I am almost sure that St Thomas did nor referred to the pharisee. Quotes have meaning only in the context The word confession is not found in the quoted document. It is absurd, and a detestable shame, that we should suffer those traditions to be changed which we have received from the fathers of old. How is this not in context? Denzinger 304. As far as my quoted document, the POPE says the priests sacraments are valid, though illegitimate.Confession is a sacrament. He did not distinguish. |
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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glgas
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« Reply #221 on: August 31, 2010, 05:53:AM » |
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It is absurd, and a detestable shame, that we should suffer those traditions to be changed which we have received from the fathers of old. How is this not in context? Denzinger 304. As far as my quoted document, the POPE says the priests sacraments are valid, though illegitimate.Confession is a sacrament. He did not distinguish.
Please read carefully the Gospel of Matthew. The pharisees claimed the tradition of the fathers against the actions of Jesus Christ. You may not think that St Thomas was on the side of the pharisees. The confession and being witness on Catholic marriage requires jurisdictional power above the sacramental power. The document talk only about the sacramental power leaves open the question of the jurisdictional power. The (traditional) words of absolution were Dominus noster Jesus Christus te absolvat: et ego auctoritate ipsìus te absolvo ab omni vinculo excommunicationis, (suspensionis), et interdicti, in quantum possum, et tu indiges. Deinde ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis, in nomine Patris, et Filii, + et Spiritus Sancti. Amen. The suspended priest has no authority to say the highlighted words. |
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JMartyr
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« Reply #222 on: August 31, 2010, 03:11:PM » |
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It is absurd, and a detestable shame, that we should suffer those traditions to be changed which we have received from the fathers of old. How is this not in context? Denzinger 304. As far as my quoted document, the POPE says the priests sacraments are valid, though illegitimate.Confession is a sacrament. He did not distinguish.
Please read carefully the Gospel of Matthew. The pharisees claimed the tradition of the fathers against the actions of Jesus Christ. You may not think that St Thomas was on the side of the pharisees. The confession and being witness on Catholic marriage requires jurisdictional power above the sacramental power. The document talk only about the sacramental power leaves open the question of the jurisdictional power. The (traditional) words of absolution were Dominus noster Jesus Christus te absolvat: et ego auctoritate ipsìus te absolvo ab omni vinculo excommunicationis, (suspensionis), et interdicti, in quantum possum, et tu indiges. Deinde ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis, in nomine Patris, et Filii, + et Spiritus Sancti. Amen. The suspended priest has no authority to say the highlighted words. I am saying this for those who say SSPX cannot absolve sins. |
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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nsper7
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« Reply #223 on: September 05, 2010, 07:52:AM » |
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Wouldn't common sense dictate that if there is even the slightest iota of question about the validity of SSPX Confessions, then find a Priest in good standing with Rome who has ordinary faculties to hear Confessions. Even if said Priest holds to some wonky (read: "progressive"/modernist/heterodox) ideas, my understanding is that their Absolutions are still valid, but you might want to take their counsel with a few grains of salt. Remember that if a Priest gives you liberal/progressive/modernist/heterodox advice or counsel (or any other type of counsel or advice) in the Confessional, you are free to heed or reject as you please. It is only the assigned Penance that must be completed.
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Exilenomore
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Location: Belgium
Posts: 330
Munda cor meum
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« Reply #224 on: September 05, 2010, 08:37:AM » |
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Wouldn't common sense dictate that if there is even the slightest iota of question about the validity of SSPX Confessions, then find a Priest in good standing with Rome who has ordinary faculties to hear Confessions. Even if said Priest holds to some wonky (read: "progressive"/modernist/heterodox) ideas, my understanding is that their Absolutions are still valid, but you might want to take their counsel with a few grains of salt. Remember that if a Priest gives you liberal/progressive/modernist/heterodox advice or counsel (or any other type of counsel or advice) in the Confessional, you are free to heed or reject as you please. It is only the assigned Penance that must be completed.
Common sense and the Church have always taught that we should stay away from people with a heretical mindset. It is only normal that one should go to a priest of the SSPX for the Sacraments. |
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As I have accepted the sede impedite position, I revoke my former posts which contained gallicanist tendencies.
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nsper7
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« Reply #225 on: September 05, 2010, 08:40:AM » |
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Wouldn't common sense dictate that if there is even the slightest iota of question about the validity of SSPX Confessions, then find a Priest in good standing with Rome who has ordinary faculties to hear Confessions. Even if said Priest holds to some wonky (read: "progressive"/modernist/heterodox) ideas, my understanding is that their Absolutions are still valid, but you might want to take their counsel with a few grains of salt. Remember that if a Priest gives you liberal/progressive/modernist/heterodox advice or counsel (or any other type of counsel or advice) in the Confessional, you are free to heed or reject as you please. It is only the assigned Penance that must be completed.
Common sense and the Church have always taught that we should stay away from people with a heretical mindset. It is only normal that one should go to a priest of the SSPX for the Sacraments. Regardless of the mindset of the Priest, the question is do they possess Ordinary jurisdiction and the faculties to hear Confessions and give Absolutions? The SSPX lack this. |
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JMartyr
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« Reply #226 on: September 05, 2010, 09:05:AM » |
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Wouldn't common sense dictate that if there is even the slightest iota of question about the validity of SSPX Confessions, then find a Priest in good standing with Rome who has ordinary faculties to hear Confessions. Even if said Priest holds to some wonky (read: "progressive"/modernist/heterodox) ideas, my understanding is that their Absolutions are still valid, but you might want to take their counsel with a few grains of salt. Remember that if a Priest gives you liberal/progressive/modernist/heterodox advice or counsel (or any other type of counsel or advice) in the Confessional, you are free to heed or reject as you please. It is only the assigned Penance that must be completed.
Common sense and the Church have always taught that we should stay away from people with a heretical mindset. It is only normal that one should go to a priest of the SSPX for the Sacraments. Regardless of the mindset of the Priest, the question is do they possess Ordinary jurisdiction and the faculties to hear Confessions and give Absolutions? The SSPX lack this. If the church was not in a crisis, they would have faculties.Canon 1335 and canon 144 supply the faculties. |
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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Exilenomore
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Location: Belgium
Posts: 330
Munda cor meum
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« Reply #227 on: September 05, 2010, 10:26:AM » |
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Indeed. The Church anathematises those who go to the sacred rites offered by heretics. This is part of the reason why the crisis we are in is so great.
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As I have accepted the sede impedite position, I revoke my former posts which contained gallicanist tendencies.
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JMartyr
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Posts: 1,611
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« Reply #228 on: September 05, 2010, 10:38:AM » |
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I agree that in normal times one should not go to suspended priests. But why are they suspended? They don't accept the NO and that Vatican 2 was nothing more than a pastoral council. Both have been disasterous for the Church. Some people pretend otherwise. I do not want to become protestant. To be normalised by church authorities, you have to accept the revolution in the church. How can this be right?
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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nsper7
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« Reply #229 on: September 05, 2010, 03:39:PM » |
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Wouldn't common sense dictate that if there is even the slightest iota of question about the validity of SSPX Confessions, then find a Priest in good standing with Rome who has ordinary faculties to hear Confessions. Even if said Priest holds to some wonky (read: "progressive"/modernist/heterodox) ideas, my understanding is that their Absolutions are still valid, but you might want to take their counsel with a few grains of salt. Remember that if a Priest gives you liberal/progressive/modernist/heterodox advice or counsel (or any other type of counsel or advice) in the Confessional, you are free to heed or reject as you please. It is only the assigned Penance that must be completed.
Common sense and the Church have always taught that we should stay away from people with a heretical mindset. It is only normal that one should go to a priest of the SSPX for the Sacraments. Regardless of the mindset of the Priest, the question is do they possess Ordinary jurisdiction and the faculties to hear Confessions and give Absolutions? The SSPX lack this. If the church was not in a crisis, they would have faculties.Canon 1335 and canon 144 supply the faculties. My understanding is that the members of the Church hierarchy who have the authority to...well...authoritatively interpret Canon Law disagree with the SSPX's view. It seems like one is treading on extremely thin ice by buying into such claims by the SSPX. I agree that in normal times one should not go to suspended priests. But why are they suspended? They don't accept the NO and that Vatican 2 was nothing more than a pastoral council. Both have been disasterous for the Church. Some people pretend otherwise. I do not want to become protestant. To be normalised by church authorities, you have to accept the revolution in the church. How can this be right? My understanding is that you can still fulfill the Sunday obligation at an SSPX Mass, but just stay away from their Confessional and go to a Priest with Ordinary jurisdiction/proper faculties. |
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