Fr. Fitzpatrick vs. Fr. Scott on Validity of SSPX Confessions

[JMartyr]

I think the conclusion we can come to based on this thread is:

-Stay away from SSPX Confessions.

.Based on what?

[Stubborn]

I think the conclusion we can come to based on this thread is:

-Stay away from SSPX Confessions.

.Based on what?

Based on him being a proud member of a New Order.

[JMartyr]

We should like to reply to the objection that will certainly be levied against it in the matter of obedience, an the jurisdiction held by those who seek to impose this liberalization on us. Our reply is- in the Church, law and jurisidiction are at the service of the faith, the chief end of the Church. There is no law, no jurisdiction which can impose on us the lessening of our faith. We accept this jurisdiction and this law when they are at the service of the faith. But who can be judge of that? The Tradition, the faith taught for 2000 years. Every Catholic can and must resist anyone in the Church who lays hands on his faith, the faith of the eternal Church, upheld by his childhood catechism. The defense of his faith is the first duty of every Christian, more especially every priest and bishop. Wherever an order carries with it the danger of corrupting faith and morals, "disobedience" becomes a grave duty. It is because we believe that our whole faith is endangered by the postconciliar reforms and changes that it is our duty to "disobey" and to maintain the traditions. The greatest service we can render to the Catholic Church, the successor of Peter, the salvation of souls and our own, is to say no to the reformed liberal Church, because we believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God made man, who is neither liberal nor reformable........Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

[glgas]

There is no law, no jurisdiction which can impose on us the lessening of our faith.

Part of the faith is to accept the authority of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is actualized through the papal power.

[Exilenomore]

Would you have accepted the semi-arian documents signed by Pope Liberius out of 'obedience'?

I have to take this one back, because apparently the claim that Pope Liberius signed such documents is false. I read some quotes from documents where a Pontiff praised Pope Liberius' firmness in rejecting arianism. So, I apologise.

[JMartyr]

Would you have accepted the semi-arian documents signed by Pope Liberius out of 'obedience'?

I have to take this one back, because apparently the claim that Pope Liberius signed such documents is false. I read some quotes from documents where a Pontiff praised Pope Liberius' firmness in rejecting arianism. So, I apologise.

At least somebody can admit being wrong.

[JMartyr]

There is no law, no jurisdiction which can impose on us the lessening of our faith.

Part of the faith is to accept the authority of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is actualized through the papal power.

Every single decision drom that authority? Even when modernists are elevated to become cardinals? Even when Hans Kung is given a slap on the wrist while Archbishop Lefebvre is cast into the outer darkness? There are just to many examples where authority has gone off course.

[PeterII]

I think the conclusion we can come to based on this thread is:

-Stay away from SSPX Confessions.

That's strange.  My conclusion based on this thread was that you and glgass should get married. 

[JMartyr]

I think the conclusion we can come to based on this thread is:

-Stay away from SSPX Confessions.

That's strange.  My conclusion based on this thread was that you and glgass should get married. 

That's funny!!   

[Exilenomore]

There is no law, no jurisdiction which can impose on us the lessening of our faith.

Part of the faith is to accept the authority of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is actualized through the papal power.

Every single decision drom that authority? Even when modernists are elevated to become cardinals? Even when Hans Kung is given a slap on the wrist while Archbishop Lefebvre is cast into the outer darkness? There are just to many examples where authority has gone off course.

I certainly do think that papal authority can be abused. It has never been the teaching of the Church that a pope cannot make mistakes. We must submit to the infallible teachings of the pope and to everything he says which does not contradict sacred tradition. When he does contradict tradition, however, we are obliged to resist such a teaching. Papal authority is based upon the faith, and should be exercised to that end. Of course, the danger is that some will take this as an excuse for doing whatever they want, but I do not see this in the SSPX. What they do finds it's justification in the grave necessity and crisis the Church is experiencing in these times. It is wrong to accuse them of disobedience, because it is they that have preserved catholic tradition from being lost to the people.