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Author Topic: Official "Lifting of the Excommunications" Running Thread  (Read 2007 times)
StevusMagnus
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« on: January 23, 2009, 10:43:AM »

I thought I would attempt to centralize all of our discussions on the upcoming rumored lifting or nullifying of the excommunications of the SSPX Bishops. Please use this thread to link to new updates and post comments regarding this subject.

Here is the latest...

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

Friday, January 23, 2009

Removal of the excommunications of SSPX Bishops
Second Thread
One Update

1. New article by Andrea Tornielli in Friday's edition of Il Giornale: Saturday or, at most, next week; Fellay met Cañizares in Rome.

The removal of the excommunication, decided by Pope Ratzinger, will be published already Saturday, or at most next week, after the end of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity. The four Bishops at this hour wait in silence ... .

The Superior-General of the Fraternity, Bishop Bernard Fellay, first signatory of the letter with which it was requested of the Pontiff to remove the excommunication, in the past few days was in Rome and also met Cardinal Antonio Cañizares, new Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship.
2. (UPDATE 1244 GMT): Il Foglio begins its article on the matter this Friday with the following words:

What happens if Benedict XVI "pardons" the Lefebvrist schismatics [sic]

Authoritative sources, directly involved in the operations and contacted by Il Foglio, suggest doubting [invitano a diffidare] the news that appeared yesterday, while the Vatican, and, from Paris, the Fraternity of Saint Pius X, have not, up to now, either confirmed or denied the news.

by Marco Burini [Whole article will be translated as soon as it becomes available]
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LRThunder
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 10:44:AM »

What will this mean for the priests who are suspended a divinis?  Will their suspensions remain in effect or are they also lifted?
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StevusMagnus
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 10:58:AM »

Good question. I am hoping and praying that either their suspensions will be lifted or that the Pope will grant them universal jurisdiction. Let's all pray for that.

However, as far as I know, this document will just lift the "excommunications" for the Bishops. The rest of the priests were never excommunicated. Rome admits this. If this is all that happens, then the Society, I presume goes back to its pre-1988 status of being suppressed in the eyes of Rome, but not "schismatic" or "excommunicated". Let's pray Rome clarifies further!
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phaley
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 12:18:PM »

I would doubt that this upcoming announcement will include the juridical structure for the FSSPX but there could be a statement that they have temporary universal jurisdiction until such time as further details are worked out.  The important point, I think, is the stigma of the excommunications will have been removed.
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StevusMagnus
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 12:56:PM »

Here are clues as to where the SSPX/ Roman relations would go moving forward..

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2006/04/one-two-three-strategy_05.html

Quote

Wednesday, April 05, 2006

The One-Two-Three Strategy

The Superior for the District of France of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X (FSSPX/SSPX), Father Régis de Cacqueray, published a communiqué on the official website of the District (which is by far the largest district of the Fraternity), warning the faithful against the rumors and especially the malicious comments spread by two well-known websites, one French and the other American*.

Father de Cacqueray is considered a "hardliner" ("anti-reconciliation"), but this does not mean much: we Catholics of all people must be wary of such labels, which are used with malevolent intentions but do not possess any clear meaning. The most important passage of his communiqué is not particularly related to the condemned websites:

Whatever they [the websites] are interested in portraying [that is, that the Fraternity is dominated by a "cabal of conspirators" willing to "sell out"], the Fraternity of Saint Pius X remains faithful to a line [which has been] clearly expressed and regarding which it has not wavered:

- obtaining the two preconditions, which are the withdrawal of the decree of excommunications and the freedom of every priest to celebrate the Mass of Saint Pius V;

- the resolution of doctrinal questions;

- the search for the most adequate canonical solution.

Father de Cacqueray is right, of course: that has been the steady position of the Fraternity, expressed (as we have commented before), for instance, in the very illuminating letter of Bishop Fellay (the Superior-General of the Fraternity) to Cardinal Castrillón in 2004 (repeated in his latest interview). But this line of thought has rarely been so clearly and synthetically expressed, and for that we thank Father de Cacqueray. Will we see this strategy unfold in its clear steps in the near future?... Perhaps.

Some may also believe that "doctrinal discussions" are unacceptable -- but that is preposterous. The Holy See has been hopelessly dialoguing, since the Council, with the Anglican Communion, which lost any sign of faith sometime between 1860 and 1960... Honest and topical discussions with the Fraternity would be far more objective, since there is no dogmatic issue involved, and could set the basis for a very useful definition of the "hermeneutics of continuity"
proposed by Pope Benedict. Such discussions could also happen after a clearer canonical framework is established, since they are not among the "preconditions".

Therefore, one could envision a situation whereby the creation of a "Doctrinal Commission" -- which would then be the institutional "locus" of the debates between the Fraternity and the Holy See -- serves as the fulfilment of this step ("the resolution of doctrinal questions"), allowing for the complete canonical regularization of the Society even though not every controversy is actually resolved before the establishment of the new canonical framework.

-----
*[It should be said, in fairness, that the French Sedevacantist website has one thing to be said in its favor: it ALWAYS mentions its sources, which is essential in the web; while the American website shamelessly copies commentaries, translations, and other texts without the minimal courtesy of crediting its sources.]

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neel
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"I'm all-in."


« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 01:33:PM »

If by "doctrinal discussions" the SSPX means annulling parts of Vatican II, they will never be regularized.  If they want "clarifications" on certain passages that definitively put the problematic parts of the Council into a Traditional context, there's hope.
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Well, it would be just like you to drag your keyboard to a gunfight.

"I know very well that without God's grace there is nothing good in me, and that I am as much a piece of useless, stinking sh** as anyone else, if not more."  the Cardinal of Mainz and Chancellor of the Holy Roman Empire, 1521

"The media have no idea what a real Catholic is. If they did, they would scream for his martyrdom, they would scream for his skin."
-His Eminence, Bishop Williamson, 2005


This is it, boys, this is war.

"Oh wait, I almost forgot.  This thread is locked because it's stupid."  -Quis
Gerard
Banned for disrespecting the Holy Father, snarkiness, and rad-traddy negativism
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2009, 01:38:PM »

Quote from: neel
If by "doctrinal discussions" the SSPX means annulling parts of Vatican II, they will never be regularized. If they want "clarifications" on certain passages that definitively put the problematic parts of the Council into a Traditional context, there's hope.

I think they would settle for precise condemnations of erroneous interpretations with an anchoring of the documents of Vatican II to previous Magisterial texts in order to guide the proper interpretation. 



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StevusMagnus
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2009, 01:51:PM »

Saturday's the Day!!!!!!!!!!
 

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/01/saturday-sspx-excomms-to-be-lifted/

Saturday: SSPX excomm’s to be “lifted”

CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULA — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 12:47 pm

This just in:

We have the confirmation from well-informed Vatican co-workers: Press-Information about the possible lifting of the excommunication of the FSSPX bishops on SATURDAY!

The report in german:

http://www.kath.net/detail.php?id=21916


HMiS, can you translate for us?Huh?
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StevusMagnus
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2009, 02:00:PM »

I ran the German website through a web translator..

Quote
KATH.NET exclusively: Vatikan will publish a statement on Saturday for the possible abolition of the Exkommunikation of the four bishops of the Piusbruderschaft Vatikan (kath.net)
The Vatikan will publish an explanation on Saturday for the possible abolition of the Exkommunikation of the four bishops of the Piusbruderschaft. This was definitely confirmed KATH.NET on Friday afternoon by Vatikanmitarbeitern. Over contents of the explanation there is however at present still no reliable information.
The four bishops Fellay, Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta were exkommuniziert 1988 by the Vatikan, because them without agreement of Rome von Marcel Lefebvre, to which ermeritierten archbishop by Tulle, to bishops were dedicated. With the illegal consecration was also Antonio de Castro Mayer, which emeritierte bishop von Campos, who had tightened itself thereby the Exkommunikation as act punishment.
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neel
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Location: Indiana
Personality type: Sanguine
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"I'm all-in."


« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2009, 02:40:PM »

Quote from: Gerard

Quote from: neel
If by "doctrinal discussions" the SSPX means annulling parts of Vatican II, they will never be regularized. If they want "clarifications" on certain passages that definitively put the problematic parts of the Council into a Traditional context, there's hope.

I think they would settle for precise condemnations of erroneous interpretations with an anchoring of the documents of Vatican II to previous Magisterial texts in order to guide the proper interpretation. 





That would be absolutely fantastic.  Lets put an end to this nonsense once and for all.
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Well, it would be just like you to drag your keyboard to a gunfight.

"I know very well that without God's grace there is nothing good in me, and that I am as much a piece of useless, stinking sh** as anyone else, if not more."  the Cardinal of Mainz and Chancellor of the Holy Roman Empire, 1521

"The media have no idea what a real Catholic is. If they did, they would scream for his martyrdom, they would scream for his skin."
-His Eminence, Bishop Williamson, 2005


This is it, boys, this is war.

"Oh wait, I almost forgot.  This thread is locked because it's stupid."  -Quis
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