Will the lifting of excommunications make a difference?

[mattman1970]

In telling my fellow N.O. Catholics about the pope lifting the excommunications of the four SSPX bishops, the reaction that I seem to get is: "What is the SSPX?"  It seems like the average Catholic in the pew is completely clueless concerning the SSPX, and don't seem to see any significance in the pope lifting the excommunications.

So my question is:  For the average Catholic, will the lifting of the excommunications really make a difference in their lives and faith?  I wonder.

-Matt

[calicatholic]

No, it probably won't, for the average NO Catholic.

If I could guess what the average NO Catholic is thinking...

"Who is the SSPX again?  Oh, it's those radical traditionalists.  They're ok now?  Ok so they're just like every other trad group that says that old Mass, except now the Vatican accepts them."

I don't see how it would matter to an NO Catholic.  The only people who are really affected are the laity in the SSPX.  To them, it matters.

[Credo]

For the average Catholic, will the lifting of the excommunications really make a difference in their lives and faith?

Right now, maybe not.

In a nearby town there is an SSPX chapel and NO parish. For a while the Novus Ordo priest used to rail against attending the Latin Mass at the Society chapel. He even went to the point of refusing burial of SSPX parishioners in the town's Catholic cemetery. The problem was that every time this NO priest spoke out against the SSPX, the more people got curious and discovered the traditions of the Faith at this chapel - and stayed. So for the past few years the local NO has been mum regarding the presence of the SSPX. This is true for many Novus Ordo outlets, who have kept a deadly silence regarding the SSPX for fear of loosing paying parishioners, listeners (in the case of Catholic Answers, EWTN), or benefactors. As such, few Catholics know about the Society. However, this is changing - and has been changing for sometime - so that people are indeed learning more about Catholic tradition.

In time, yes, the "lifting" of the "excommunications" will make a difference.

[7HolyCats]

It will especially for traditionalist Catholics who only have an SSPX chapel nearby.

I would never have attended one before, even if Ecclesia Dei said passive participation could fulfill one's Sunday Obligation and wasnt in itself schism, etc.

Now, even though they arent fully regularized yet into official structures...I would feel considerably more open to the idea of attending if it were the only trad service around, where previously such a situation would have made me reluctantly attend the Novus Ordo.

It will be very good for trads who sympathize with their traditionalism, like myself, who have always nevertheless, because of the excommunications, maintained a distance and erred on the side of caution as regards my own obedience. This is a large class of trads, though perhaps not as vocal.

And, should it lead to full regularization, it will bring perhaps 1 million ardent trads into the Church right away, and could help send a message to the rest of the Church that this is the direction the Pope (and God) desire us to move.

[Tim]

Agreed right now maybe not but eventually this will be a signpost all will recognize. More of God's plan will unfold.

[StevusMagnus]

It will especially for traditionalist Catholics who only have an SSPX chapel nearby.

I would never have attended one before, even if Ecclesia Dei said passive participation could fulfill one's Sunday Obligation and wasnt in itself schism, etc.

Now, even though they arent fully regularized yet into official structures...I would feel considerably more open to the idea of attending if it were the only trad service around, where previously such a situation would have made me reluctantly attend the Novus Ordo.

It will be very good for trads who sympathize with their traditionalism, like myself, who have always nevertheless, because of the excommunications, maintained a distance and erred on the side of caution as regards my own obedience. This is a large class of trads, though perhaps not as vocal.

And, should it lead to full regularization, it will bring perhaps 1 million ardent trads into the Church right away, and could help send a message to the rest of the Church that this is the direction the Pope (and God) desire us to move.

7 Holy Cats,

It is amazing to me that you are so consistently wrong on so many counts. I pray it is not intentional.

Firstly, Msgr. Perl has stated that assisting at an SSPX Mass is not a sin and fulfills the Sunday obligation if done for love of the TLM. He nowhere says it is only ok to "passively" participate. This is your own addition. Please show me where he states it is only permissible to passively participate?

Secondly, why in the world would the lifting of the excommunications on 4 Bishops now make you more likely to atten an SSPX chapel? The priests are still in the exact same canonical situation they were before the lifting. So your change in attitude must necessarily be based completely on emotion.

[maldon]

Whatever the technicalities of the wording 7HolyCats used, he or she is not far from the point that Pope John Paul II specifically asked all Catholics to stay away from the SSPX until they were regularized, which created an understandable reticence of some traditionalists with respect to the SSPX. Later statements from Rome indicate that the Sunday mass fulfills the Sunday obligation. However, for a person looking to go to mass every day, this problem is not solved, nor is it solved for someone looking for a confessor, because SSPX priests are suspended and so people are not supposed to go to them for confession.

Right now, the difference is, I think, emotional, in the sense that while they are still suspended and the laity are still not supposed to go to them until they are regularized, the fact is that the Church hierarchy itself expects them to return "shortly," which is a good sign, and the lifting of the excommunications is a necessary step in the direction of return. So, there is more hope.

There will be a very good difference now, I think, in that more people will be forced to get to know them and hear about them and learn about traditionalism, especially the bishops of the world. This act of the pope is writing on the wall for them; it is the signal that they had better become accustomed to the fact that soon enough there will be traditionalist priests walking around their dioceses, dressed in cassocks. Think of France especially. They did not receive the Motu well, and they did not respond to the pope's gentle signals well. Now they must begin to swallow the bitter pill of humiliation, because when these guys are regularized, half of the masses said in parishes will be in Latin. All those closing down churches will remain open, with Latin mass parishioners. And while they visibly diminish, the SSPX will seem to rise suddenly in visibility. A bitter pill. One they have been asking for for a long time. I pray for the process of reconciliation to be quick, which is possible, depending on the modus operandi.

Think of it. Nobody can really say what the heck VII means. So all that is really needed is a statement by bishop Fellay to the effect that they believe VII to be a valid ecumenical council, and that any interpretation in it must be consistent with Tradition, that they accept any interpretation of it consistent with Tradition, and reject any interpretation of it that is not. Then they are like everybody else, interpreting it the way they want.

[James02]

The priests are still in the exact same canonical situation they were before the lifting. So your change in attitude must necessarily be based completely on emotion.

A very interesting point.  Nothing changes for the priests. 

Now my comments on the topic:
1.  This moves the process one step closer for Bishop Fellay to become Pope.

2.  This will not have a big effect on the Church until we get Russia consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Since the SSPX has a 100% batting average with their Rosary crusades, may I suggest that the next intention for the Rosary Crusade should be that the Pope will consecrate Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart with all of the bishops of the world.  The Lord has chosen this remedy for His Church, so unless we do it, things world wide will get worse.

3.  The next phase is that the Church will finally come to grips with Vatican II and the modernism raging through the Church.  I think more and more it will come out that Vatican II is not binding on the Church and not infallible, as the Council itself stated and Pope Paul VI stated.

4.  One more intention for a Rosary Crusade could be for the Pope to declare the Novus Ordo to be a separate rite.  That would solve a lot of problems.

[Rex_Tremendae]

The priests are still in the exact same canonical situation they were before the lifting. So your change in attitude must necessarily be based completely on emotion.

A very interesting point.  Nothing changes for the priests. 

Now my comments on the topic:
1.  This moves the process one step closer for Bishop Fellay to become Pope.

2.  This will not have a big effect on the Church until we get Russia consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Since the SSPX has a 100% batting average with their Rosary crusades, may I suggest that the next intention for the Rosary Crusade should be that the Pope will consecrate Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart with all of the bishops of the world.  The Lord has chosen this remedy for His Church, so unless we do it, things world wide will get worse.

3.  The next phase is that the Church will finally come to grips with Vatican II and the modernism raging through the Church.  I think more and more it will come out that Vatican II is not binding on the Church and not infallible, as the Council itself stated and Pope Paul VI stated.

4.  One more intention for a Rosary Crusade could be for the Pope to declare the Novus Ordo to be a separate rite.  That would solve a lot of problems.

Petrus Romanus...

[DrBombay]

Bishop Fellay is not a Roman.  He was born in Switzerland.