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Author Topic: 15 theologians re-excommunicate Bishop Williamson  (Read 5461 times)
Jacafamala
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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2009, 07:35:PM »

Bah, they are just fringe Schismatics! Don't pay any attention to them.

Oh, how the tables have turned.
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devotedknuckles
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« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2009, 07:45:PM »

I gotta bad case of whiplash
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QuisUtDeus
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« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2009, 08:16:PM »

Quote from: StrictCatholicGirl
 I thought that lifting the excommunications would eliminate the "beating stick." I guess I was wrong.
 
Well, this is the other half of the extremism.
 
You have the liberals and Neo-Catholics on one side who have "bet the farm" on V2 being correct.  The liberals take advantage of it for heterodoxy, and the Neo-Catholics have always claimed they are right, the Novus Ordo - the way they interpreted it - was the only way, and built substantial castles on what may become sand.
 
On the other side you have trads who still think B16 is a wolf in sheep's clothing and criticize him because he didn't declare the excommunications null and void.
 
Both sides, in essence, forget that the Pope is the Pope (and what that exactly means) because they are too busy with their agendas based on their personal interpretations of what the Church should be.
 
Luckily, the bishops of the SSPX get it as one can see by their (at least public) letters and attitudes towards the lifting, and luckily, some Novus Ordo bishops get it as well.  Even if their respective "faithful" don't.  If one is going to "resist Peter to the face", one should be sure of their motives and also be as sure as possible they are correct.  Because if one is wrong or has the wrong motive, he is putting his soul in grave jeopardy.  Personally, I'm not willing to put my soul in jeopardy over "remit" vs. "nullify" by clamoring against the Pope, but apparently some people are.
 
With the removal of the excommunications we are seeing the wheat separated from the chaff.  People who have personal ideals about what the Church should or should not be and that refuse the juridicial authority are sticking out like sore thumbs left and right, and on both the "left" and the "right".
 
Those on the extreme portions of the left and right stick out right away, and on this forum those on the extreme right for sure stick out, and are easily identifiable.  We're hearing from them now.
 
The next part we will start hearing from, probably within the next 3 months, are the Neo-Catholics.  And by those I don't mean anyone who goes to a Novus Ordo.  I mean the Neo-Catholics who fit the definition of the term.  They have bet the bank on "JP2 the Great", their version of "reform of the reform", built dynasties around it, told others they are schismatic, claim they are the true Catholics and everyone else is heterodox or schismatic, etc.
 
If things go well with traditionalism having an influence on the Pope and the Church as a whole, they will have a bitter pill to swallow, and, quite frankly, judging by some of their egos they will not be able to swallow such a pill.
 
Here's my prediction of how this will affect the Neo-Catholics if traditionalism starts gaining rapid ground.  It will be in several stages:
 
1) Silence.  We have that now.
2) Denial.  "Well, that's a fine charism, but we're still mainstream."
3) Frustration. "Well, it's great that the TLM parishes are getting all the attention, but we're still here, too!"
 
At that point, there will probably be a split - groups a, b, and c
 
a) Those who accept it as part of their charism.  You'll see apologists and things like EWTN chasing the dollars and/or attention so they will become more "trad".  Or those who would dubiously follow the Pope off a cliff like lemmings and follow his feelings du jour.  If the Pope is a trad this week, then they are trads this week. 
 
b) Those who dig in and claim they are still right.
 
c) Those who revolt against the Pope.
 
I hope I'm wrong about all the discord I see in the near future, but I doubt I am.  So, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
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QuisUtDeus
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« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2009, 08:18:PM »

Quote from: Valz
Quote from: StevusMagnus
Bishop Williamson's acts have indirectly provided a spotlight to find the dissidents. Otherwise they probably would have been a little less brazen.


Indeed, there is no "evil" that happens from which God does not derives a greater good. The dissidents are all popping out!

On both sides, in fact.

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Valz
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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2009, 08:47:PM »

Quote from: QuisUtDeus
On both sides, in fact.

Yep and a good and fair analysis on your previous post. Smile
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StrictCatholicGirl
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« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2009, 09:50:PM »

Quote from: QuisUtDeus
 Luckily, the bishops of the SSPX get it as one can see by their (at least public) letters and attitudes towards the lifting, and luckily, some Novus Ordo bishops get it as well.  Even if their respective "faithful" don't.  If one is going to "resist Peter to the face", one should be sure of their motives and also be as sure as possible they are correct.  Because if one is wrong or has the wrong motive, he is putting his soul in grave jeopardy.  Personally, I'm not willing to put my soul in jeopardy over "remit" vs. "nullify" by clamoring against the Pope, but apparently some people are.
 
With the removal of the excommunications we are seeing the wheat separated from the chaff.  People who have personal ideals about what the Church should or should not be and that refuse the juridicial authority are sticking out like sore thumbs left and right, and on both the "left" and the "right". 
 
Amen, Quis! I, too, admire your analysis. The only agenda we Catholics should have is the agenda of TRUTH - and what is BEST for the whole Catholic Church. Bp Fellay and the Holy Father are doing what is best for the WHOLE CHURCH (I have no reason to suspect anything to the contrary). Extremists on both sides refuse to see it as they are caught up in their narrow view of what "the Church" needs (read what "I" need). I hope the future is a little brighter than you predict.. but things do tend to get messy when the wheat and chaff are separated. 

- Lisa
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remnant
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« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2009, 10:25:PM »

Don't forget, that the Germans are still carrying a tremendous load of guilt over what they did during WWII, so this is not really surprising coming from them. They are still hypersensitive over there about any criticisms directed at Jews, and this reaction stems from that guilt.
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StevusMagnus
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« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2009, 11:11:PM »

Quote from: QuisUtDeus

Quote from: Valz
Quote from: StevusMagnus
Bishop Williamson's acts have indirectly provided a spotlight to find the dissidents. Otherwise they probably would have been a little less brazen.

Indeed, there is no "evil" that happens from which God does not derives a greater good. The dissidents are all popping out!

On both sides, in fact.


I don't think just because one feels the excoms were invalid to start with, one is somehow against the Pope and showing his "true colors". I think it is still a valid position to take as a remittance could be interpreted in line with a nullification. Fellay and all 4 Bishops still think they were never valid, and I don't think one could now accuse them of being "against the Pope".

With the exception of perhaps a few Sedes and maybe a handful of rancorous Society laity, every Society person I've spoken to is in favor of the reconciliation. The amount of NeoCon/ Liberal visceral hatred, on the other hand, has blown me away. If there is any Papal animosity on "both sides"  it is about 90-10 on the other side.
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trident59
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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2009, 12:55:PM »

Steve,
 
At last I got around to visiting your homepage. I'm very impressed with your words. Keep up the good work.
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Sinner
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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2009, 07:42:PM »

"Whoever strives on the basis of the Second Vatican Council for a church and a theology "in an open dialogue with the world and the religions, especially Judaism, are" feels that they have received a punch to the head."

 

Good!



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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God be merciful to me a sinner.
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