The Problem with SSPX

[columba]

Do you not grasp point of the Parable of the Good Samaritan?

The Parable of the Good Samaritan preaches against the racism of the false Pharisee/Rabbinical religion. Confirming errors of a racist religion would be false charity.

[devotedknuckles]

T rex posted

Gabrielle, I don't feel any love either.

now now.
i love you bro.
sip sip

[INPEFESS]

Originally posted by Rex,

Gabrielle, I don't feel any love either.

Oh, come come now. Dry those tears! You're a fellow musician! How couldn't I love you?! :wink:

[Tiny]

Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offense against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church's law. [Cf. Code of Canon Law, 1364.]

Can someone with the necessary foreign language skills please check the original Latin document to see if the english translation requires the definite article?  The Vatican has the Ecclesia Dei Adflicta in Latin, Italian, Spanish, German at the very least; do these translations back up the English translation too?  Earlier on in EDA they seem to identify that the consecration is a schismatic act (an act tending towards schism, but not necessarily making one schismatic) so it seems to me that the document is to be interpreted as such.

Edit: here are the passages

c)  In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement.  Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church's law.(

French:
c)  Dans les circonstances présentes, je désire avant tout lancer un appel à la fois solennel et ému, paternel et fraternel,  à tous ceux qui, jusqu'à présent, ont été, de diverses manières, liés au mouvement issu de Mgr. Lefebvre, pour qu'ils réalisent le grave devoir qui est le leur de rester unis au Vicaire du Christ dans l'unité de l'Eglise catholique et de ne pas continuer à soutenir de quelque façon que ce soit ce mouvement.  Nul ne doit ignorer que l'adhésion formelle au schisme constitue une grave offense à Dieu et comporte l'excommunication prévue par le droit de l'Eglise(.

German:
c) Vor allem möchten wir unter den vorliegenden Umständen       einen zugleich feierlichen und tief empfundenen, väterlichen und brüderlichen       Aufruf an all jene richten, die bisher in irgendeiner Weise mit der       Bewegung des Erzbischofs Lefebvre in Verbindung standen: daß sie       ihre ernste Pflicht erfüllen, mit dem Stellvertreter Christi in der       Einheit der katholischen Kirche verbunden zu bleiben und in keiner Weise       jene Bewegung weiter zu unterstützen. Alle müssen wissen, daß       die formale Zustimmung zu einem Schisma eine schwere Beleidigung Gottes       ist und die Exkommunikation mit sich bringt, wie im Kirchenrecht       festgesetzt ist(.

Italian
c)  Nelle presenti circostanze, desidero soprattutto rivolgere un appella allo stesso tempo solenne e commosso, paterno e fraterno, a tutti coloro che finora sono stati in diversi modi legati al movimento dell'Arcivescovo Lefebvre, affinché compiano il grave dovere di rimanere uniti al Vicario di Cristo nell'unità della Chiesa Cattolica, e di non continuare a sostenere in alcun modo quel movimento.  Nessuno deve ignorare che l'adesione formale allo scisma costituisce una grave offesa a Dio e comporta la scomunica stabilita dal diritto della Chiesa(

Latin:
c) Hisce in adiunctis ante omnia cupimus sollemnem et concitatam, paternam ac  fraternam provocationem ad eos omnes interponere, qui quoquo modo hucusque cum  navitate Archiepiscopi Lefebvre coniuncti sunt, ut grave servent officium  adhaerendi ad Christi Vicarium in unitate Ecclesiae Catholicae, neque velint  ullo modo tam pravam usque sustinere agendi rationem. Omnes scire debent  formalem schismati adhaesionem gravem esse in Deum iniuriam atque  excommunicationem prae se ferre lege Ecclesiae rite statutam (Cfr. Codex  Iuris Canonici, can. 1364).

Portuguese
c) Nas presentes circunstáncias, desejo sobretudo dirigir um apelo, ao mesmo tempo solene e comovido, paterno e fraterno, a todos aqueles que até agora, de diversos modos, estiveram ligados ao movimento do Arcebispo Lefebvre, a fim de que cumpram o grave dever de permanecerem unidos ao Vigário de Cristo na unidade da Igreja Católica, e de não continuarem a apoiar de modo algum esse movimento.  Ninguem deve ignorar que a adesão formal ao cisma constitui grave ofensa a Deus e comporta a excomunhão estabecida pelo Direito da Igreja(.

Spanish
c)  En las presentes circunstancias, deseo sobre todo dirigir una llamada a la vez solemne y ferviente, paterna y fraterna, a todos los que hasta ahora han estado vinculados de diversos modos con las actividades del arzobispo Lefebvre, para que cumplan el grave deber de permanecer unidos al Vicario de Cristo en la unidad de la Iglesia católica y dejen de sostener de cualquier forma que sea esa reprobable forma de actuar.  Todos deben saber que la adhesión formal al cisma constituye una grave ofensa a Dios y lleva consigo la excomunión debidamente establecida por la ley de la Iglesia(.

[Gabrielle]

 QuisUtDeus said:

That doesn't show they petitioned repeatedly for the removal of the excommunications.  Do you always read what you want to see instead of what is written?

What on earth else would they be repeatedly petitioning about? Again, here is what the Pope said:  "I have carried out this act of paternal mercy because repeatedly these prelates have manifested their sharp suffering in the situation in which they found themselves."

And later there was determined to be no schism which shows the misunderstanding of JP2.

Pope Benedict XVI said nothing about a misunderstanding. How can an excommunication be lifted if there wasn't one?

you promote your own opinon and then claim it is theirs.

I've quoted their words in my responses and then you say that John Paul II was confused.

True.  But you Neo-Catholics have a unique approach.  You invent your version of Catholicism and then go around saying that you're just saying what the Church says and call your own theological opinions "authentic teaching of the Magisterium."

I'm the one that has the Pope in union with the Bishops on my side. This is what makes up the teaching office of the Church, namely the Magisterium. My experience with SSPXers is negativity, hyper-criticism, and what seems to be a persecution complex. But I was brought up as a Catholic who was taught that I am not to spend my time on earth judging the decisions of the Magisterium. As a member of the laity, I am taught that I must love my neighbor as myself, avoid the occasions of sin, be in the state of grace, be in horror of mortal sin, cultivate a prayer life, practice the spiritual and corporal works of mercy, spread the Gospel through word and deed, forgive those who injure me, pray for my enemies, pray the Rosary daily if possible, go to confession at least once a month, go to Eucharistic Adoration, pray for an increase of faith, grace and knowledge so that I may share Christ with those who lack Him, pray for the salvation of souls and above all, I must love God with my whole heart, my whole soul and my whole mind. This is what I am taught at my Novus Ordo parish.

So I have to give it to you, your deception is much more original than the Lutherans or Calvinists.

I'm not here to deceive anyone. You seem to get upset when I show you the quotes made by John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI.

At this point, since you have done nothing except rant about the SSPX, I feel obliged to remind you of the forum rules:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/apologia/vpost?id=2860339

Quote:

Non-Trad Participation

Other Catholics  and non-Catholics  are most welcome to participate if they will respect the sensibilities of traditional Catholics who respect the Petrine Ministry and the man who holds the office. In other words, read about what is meant by "traditional Catholics" -- and don't come here to rile people who fit that description. We get smeared everywhere else; it won't happen here

I'm responding to people's statements. If you are alarmed because you cannot come up with convincing responses then don't read this thread. You've called me a hypocrite, a deceiver and a nutjob. I don't mind the insults, but I find it rather silly for you to warn me about respecting your sensibilities, when all I have been doing is countering your opinion with writings of the Popes and Sacred Scripture.

You've had your fun, but now it's time to decide: follow the rules or find somewhere else to go.  There are plenty of other topics on this forum you can discuss with other Catholics: the Rosary, the Divine Office, the Saints, etc.

Speaking about the Rosary, that's another bone I have to pick with SSPXers. In my experience many of the disciples of SSPX which I have come accross denigrate the Mysteries of Light which meditate on the Life of Christ. When I first heard such disdain (they referred to them mockingly as the "Glow-in the dark mysteries"), it immediately raised a red flag of Luciferianism to me.

[7HolyCats]

Speaking about the Rosary, that's another bone I have to pick with SSPXers. In my experience many of the disciples of SSPX which I have come accross denigrate the Mysteries of Light which meditate on the Life of Christ. When I first heard such disdain (they referred to them mockingly as the "Glow-in the dark mysteries"), it immediately raised a red flag of Luciferianism to me.

Most trads will tell you the so-called Luminous Mysteries might make a good separate chaplet (perhaps with a few others thrown in even), but have absolutely no place in the rosary as such. John Paul had no right to go meddling in that.

[StevusMagnus]

Here's where the Society is coming from on the luminous mysteries...

http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/luminous_mysteries_of_rosary.htm

[calicatholic]

Maybe Mary appeared to Pope John Paul II privately and asked him to add those mysteries in.

[StevusMagnus]

Valz,

I found it here (http://www.geocities.com/pharsea/Perfidy.html), with no citation.

The quote is attributed to St. Augustine on various Jewish websites and even in a book, but I can't for the life of me find a cite.

[QuisUtDeus]

I'm responding to people's statements. If you are alarmed because you cannot come up with convincing responses then don't read this thread. You've called me a hypocrite, a deceiver and a nutjob. I don't mind the insults, but I find it rather silly for you to warn me about respecting your sensibilities, when all I have been doing is countering your opinion with writings of the Popes and Sacred Scripture.

You're a nutjob that can't follow the rules.  There's a surprise.

You're gone.  That's not a surprise.