Seder Meals Violate the 1st Commandment

[Stephanos]

I know there are already some forum topics about the morality of Catholic observance of Jewish Seder meals, but here is a very new AudioSancto.org sermon that talks about the topic, just as it starts to appear in Catholic churches during Lent.

http://www.audiosancto.org/auweb/20080928-Seder-Meals-Violate-the-1st-Commandment.mp3

Just to cut to the chase: of course, it is mortally sinful for a Catholic to participate in such a Seder meal.

[Anastasia]

But what would you say to the Catholicized versions of the seder out there? Maria Von Trapp, Mary Reed Newland, and a several other books on liturgical customs for the family I've read all recommend a kind of seder for Holy Thursday. All the food from the seder, even a few of the prayers make it in. If I have the time, I'll see if I can post one of them here.

[Stephanos]

But what would you say to the Catholicized versions of the seder out there? Maria Von Trapp, Mary Reed Newland, and a several other books on liturgical customs for the family I've read all recommend a kind of seder for Holy Thursday. All the food from the seder, even a few of the prayers make it in. If I have the time, I'll see if I can post one of them here.

I don't know if you listened to the entire sermon, but the priest gives good and interesting details on why, etc. He speaks also specifically about "Catholicized" versions - how they are a poor imitation of the Mass, which is the New Passover.

Now obviously, there's nothing intrinsically with eating roast lamb, unleavened bread, and bitter herbs as a family meal (in fact I think it sounds delicious). What is wrong is doing it in a ceremonial or ritualistic way or in a way that in any way resembles a Jewish service or contains Jewish prayers. So Catholic churches that sponsor this practice are definitely erring.

Again, he makes some good and specific points about it throughout the entire recording.

[DrBombay]

Roast lamb is nasty.  Nasty I say.  Just think of it as a large, greasy rat cuz that's what it is.

[TradCathYouth]

Who needs a seder meal anyway when Catholics have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? (Divine Liturgy out of respect for our Eastern Catholic brethren)

[HailGilbert]

Who needs a seder meal anyway when Catholics have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? (Divine Liturgy out of respect for our Eastern Catholic brethren)

The neo-Modernists who've captured our schools, universities, chanceries and the American Hierarchy, that's who. And they still wish to force it on us.

[HailGilbert]

Roast lamb is nasty.  Nasty I say.  Just think of it as a large, greasy rat cuz that's what it is.

No, it's not a "large, greasy rat". A lamb is a baby sheep, not a giant mouse with wool instead of fur.

Evolution don't happen that fast, baby!

[Texican]

Roast lamb is nasty.  Nasty I say.  Just think of it as a large, greasy rat cuz that's what it is.

  Did someone ring the dinner bell?

[Cyriacus]

It is a mistake to consider the Mass a "new seder," and the Passover Seder rituals of the Rabbinic Jews as a direct, unbroken, unaltered tradition dating from the time of Christ and earlier. No, not at all: the Haggadah text, codifying the readings and ritual, dates long after the destruction of the Temple some time in Late Antiquity, possibly around the 4th and 5th centuries. The context in which the Passover Seder developed was a polemical one; the communities shaping the ritual were aware of Christianity and were in active denial of its teachings. The Mass itself is more ancient and is the true fulfillment of the ceremony that is its antecedent. The Haggadah, too, is ultimately derived from the same antecedent, but emerged in a context of denial of Christ and the need to shape the ritual and identity of a Post-Second Temple Judaism that all Christians must reject.

To imitate the Haggadah in creating a new, "Catholicized" ceremony can only detract from the dignity of the true sacrificial meal and mock the reality of the Eucharist in the suggestion that it is a deviation, not a fulfillment. Even if it were possible to recreate the ritual practiced by the Jews prior to the rise of Rabinnism, when the religion was still a sacrificial one centered on the Temple, even then there would be no reason to do so, and it would be scandalous to practice. So much more so, then, is the Catholic practice of a ritual which holds no importance to us Christians, historical or otherwise. It is a faithless thing of no esteemed antiquity, parallel not prior to Church.

[incrucetrad]

Hey! Roast lamb, if cooked right, is absolutely delicious! If you cook it too long it will be tough and taste like shoeleather. You have to cook it slow and keep a lid on it in the oven, and baste it every half hour, and also put the right herbs on it. Rosemary is good, as is parsley. My mother was Irish and cooked it 350 degrees (40 minutes to the pound) in a dutch oven with a lid, with carrots and potatoes surrounding it. She also marinated it overnight with Campbell's Onion soup undiluted. And sprinkled rosemary (fresh from our garden) with a little salt and some parsley. It was so good. She made gravy from the juice. I miss it.