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Author Topic: Pope asked to hand over Jews raised as Catholics  (Read 2323 times)
Iuvenalis
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
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« on: April 29, 2009, 11:55:AM »

The tone of this demand, is really, really interesting.

-A 'haredi anti-missionary organization'...haredi are the ultra-orthodox 'trad' Jews FYI, and I particularly like that there's an organization whose raison d'etre is to be against missionaries.'

-The people they're speaking about were born between 1920 and 1938, so the youngest of them is friggin' 71, so they want to track them down, and their offspring. God forbid they're next 2(or more?) generations of offspring are allowed to go on being Catholic *gasp*

-I also like how Fr. Neuhaus had to explain to this group that these are people's lives we're talking about here, for people so 'concerned' about their fellow Jews they sure don't seem to care about the lives and families of these people.
They can't just appeal to the Pope to make an edict and the Swiss Guard will start kicking down doors and performing renditions of these people to Israel or something.

-The article had a couple more surprises in it as well, particularly the part on ADL-er Foxman

From:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1239710805486&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Pope asked to find Jews raised Catholic

Yad L'Achim, a haredi anti-missionary organization, called Monday on Pope Benedict XVI to help find thousands of European Jews who as young children were saved from the Holocaust by Catholic clergy and laymen and were never told of their Jewish origins.

"During his visit here, we want the pope to call on all members of the Catholic Church to reveal the identities of thousands of Jews saved by the church from the Nazis," said Rabbi Shalom Dov Lipshitz, who heads the organization. "We believe that hundreds, perhaps thousands of Jews and their offspring can be discovered if the Pope makes an unequivocal announcement while in Israel that every Catholic has an obligation to reveal the Jewish roots of those saved from the Holocaust."

Lipshitz said that Yad L'Achim had a list of about 2,000 names of children believed to have been handed over to Catholic families, orphanages and other Church institutions to hide them from the Nazis.

A sample page from the list was sent to The Jerusalem Post. It includes the names, birthdates, places of birth and last known addresses of the individuals thought to be Jews.

All of the people on the list were from Holland, and all were born between 1920 and 1938.

Lipshitz said Yad L'Achim's list, based on information collected after the war, also included Jews from France, Italy and Belgium.

The organization also wrote an open letter to Pope Benedict XVI.

"As you know, during the Holocaust, thousands of Jewish parents deposited their children with Christian families to protect them from the Nazis, fully intending to retrieve them and return them to their families and their nation after the war. Tragically, a very large percentage didn't survive, and these Christian families refused to reveal to the children their true identity," the letter read.

"We view with utmost gravity media reports that these families were acting on [the] order of Pope Pius XII, who stated that the orphans should not be told they are Jews," it said.

Father David Neuhaus, patriarchal vicar for the Hebrew Speaking Catholics in Israel, said that it was impossible for the Catholic Church to adopt an overall principle for dealing with Jews who had been raised as Catholics.

"Tremendous complexities arise, and each case must be treated individually," said Neuhaus.

"Human lives are involved in these tremendously complex, emotionally charged cases," he explained. "Besides the theological issues of what faith these people belong to, there are also very human issues of relationships. Catholic families who raise a Jewish orphan feel that he or she is their very own. To whom should this orphan be returned? To a distant relative that the survivor does not even know? To the Jewish people?"

He added that "even after these Jews are told of their origins, they react in many different ways. A simple declaration on the part of the pope is not going to solve these problems."

Some prominent Jewish leaders were saved by Catholics. Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, was hidden from the Nazis by a Catholic nanny who had him baptized and raised him as a practicing Catholic. Foxman's parents survived the Holocaust and reclaimed him.

But many young Jewish children never returned to their families and were raised as Catholics.

Grzegorz Pawlowski, formerly Zvi Hersch, serves as a priest in Jaffa. He was rescued by Polish Catholic nuns and never returned to the Jewish faith, although he is aware of his Jewish roots. He moved to Israel to be near his brother, who remained Jewish.

Rabbi David Rosen, director of the American Jewish Committee's Department for Interreligious Affairs, who is helping to coordinate the pope's visit to Israel, said that Holocaust survivors with Jewish roots had the right to know about it, but doubted that the pope was the right person to petition.

"It is more appropriate to meet with the local archdioceses and attempt to track [them] down on a local level," said Rosen. "It is a bit sensationalist to turn to the pope."
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"It is questionable whether the proper functions of Catholics is to hunt down, "expose" and condemn Catholics they suspect of undue rigidity, disobedience or "material schism"; especially while giving support to a Vatican ecumenical campaign which addresses heretics and actual Schismatics as "separated brethren", Jews as "people of the covenant" and Muslims as "people of God". This is part of the overall contradiction (or inconsistency) that permeates the "conservative" mentality. Cloaked in a pledged loyalty to all things "whatsoever" emanating from the Holy See, many "conservatives" will go beyond the measures taken by the Church leaders, or even disagree with their actual positions. The Hawaii "excommunications" were an obvious example but others can be seen. "Conservatives" denounce as "Schismatic" all those who set foot in SSPX chapels while the Vatican embraces the Schismatics in China. "Conservatives" deny any significant change at the Second Vatican Council while the Pope celebrates the enormity and impact of the changes. "Conservatives" seek the conversion of the Eastern "Orthodox" while the Vatican promises not to "proselytize" them. "Conservatives" deride American bishops while the Pope appoints and promotes the same ones." -Peter Miller


"Tolerance is the last virtue of a depraved society When an immoral society has blatantly and proudly violated all the commandments, it insists upon one last virtue, tolerance for its immorality. It will not tolerate condemnation of its perversions. It creates a whole new world in which only the intolerant critic of intolerable evil is evil." -H. Gibson

(5 x 10 x 17) x (5 x 10 x 17) ≠ 722,500
Rosarium
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2009, 12:10:PM »

If they find all those who were raised as Jewish because they were not allowed to follow Christ by their leaders, and give them to the Church, I'm sure the Pope would do the same.

Oh, wait, that would mean most of the Jews would be Catholic...
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didishroom
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2009, 12:47:PM »

So even when the Church was saving hundreds of thousands of Jews from certain death, we're still to blame. "Damned if you do, damned if you don't"
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Melita
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2009, 12:51:PM »

The Haredi are an interesting bunch. I've heard a few disturbing things about them in Israel though, shouting abuse at Christian pilgrims and attacking Palestinians. They're even pretty divided amongst themselves, mainly the Ashkenazim holding themselves apart from Sephardim and Yemenite Jews. Maybe the Pope's visit will bring some peace to the nation.
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“I am a Catholic not like someone else would be a Baptist or a Methodist, but like someone else would be an atheist.”  - Flannery O'Connor

Then again I asked him, "supposing the Pope looked up and saw a cloud and said 'It's going to rain', would that be bound to happen?"
"Oh, yes, Father."
"But supposing it didn't?"
He thought a moment and said, "I suppose it would be sort of raining spiritually, only we were too sinful to see it."
Evelyn Waugh, Brideshead Revisited
cunctas_haereses
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 12:56:PM »

Not likely.
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Baskerville
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 10:20:PM »

Great more trouble started by jews Rolling eyes

Why cant they just leave well enough alone.
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DrBombay
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 11:17:PM »

Great more trouble started by jews Rolling eyes

Why cant they just leave well enough alone.

Because they are jews.  They do not learn from history. 
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There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Rosarium
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2009, 11:19:PM »

Because they are jews.  They do not learn from history. 

Non sequitur alert ;)

Why does being a Jew mean they do not learn from history? They seem to learn as much from it as any other religion.
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DrBombay
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2009, 11:26:PM »

Because they are jews.  They do not learn from history. 

Non sequitur alert ;)

Why does being a Jew mean they do not learn from history? They seem to learn as much from it as any other religion.

Read the Old Testament.  They were constantly rebelling against God and getting punished for it.  Time and time and time again.  Finally, they rejected the Messiah and their temple was destroyed.  And even today they continue in their perfidious blindness.

They are jews.  They do not learn from history.  Clearly God has hardened their hearts as he did the heart of Pharaoh.
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There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
ophelia
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2009, 11:29:PM »

 Ugh. I cannot understand this sort of arrogance. I can't see how any other religious group could get away with that.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 11:43:PM by ophelia » Logged

E 'n la sua volontade è nostra pace.
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