LaramieHirsch
Gold Fish
Posts: 2,187
Mornie utúlië.
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« on: May 02, 2009, 06:19:PM » |
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Okay, so, an idea occurred to me after reading Michael O'Brien's Father Elijah. When I was young, I thought that the Book of Revelations was linear. That the events would occurr in order from the beginning of the book to the end. However, I'm starting to think something else. What if Revelations is several tellings of events in an overlapping manner. For example, as we know, there are seven seals and trumpets that correspond to events up until the 12th chapter. What if, after chapter 12, we get a retelling of what is to happen in a different perspective? What if it is an overlapping narrative?
Have you folks heard of this kind of thinking?
-L.H.
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ladyjane
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2009, 07:28:PM » |
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I've heard of a non-linear theory similar to what you describe -- in (some) Protestant theology
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Anastasia
i > u
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2009, 08:44:PM » |
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Sure, it is possible that many different things are going on in Revelations. There are arguments that it is a metaphor for the battle between the Chruch and Satan, a history of early Christianity, the end times, and a vision of the Mass simultaneously.
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People talk vaguely about the innocence of a little child, but they take mighty good care not to let it out of their sight for twenty minutes.-Saki.
"Meanwhile, Fate was quietly slipping lead into the boxing glove. "
— P.G. Wodehouse
The Modernist's Prayer by R.A. Knox
O God, forasmuch as without Thee
We are not enabled to doubt Thee,
Help us all by Thy Grace
To convince the whole race
It knows nothing whatever about Thee.
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didishroom
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Guten Morgen!
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2009, 10:26:PM » |
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I was taught that semetic literature has a very circular chronology to it. I do know that it mentions the battle between the good and bad angels which takes place before Genesis.
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"We're from Jersey. Not New Jersey, just Jersey. We curse a lot. We say "yo" and we say it often. We sure as hell don't pump our own gas. We know what real pizza tastes like and we know that a bagel is much more than a roll wit a hole in the middle. We judge people by what exit they are off the parkway or by what mall they live closest to. We drive SUVs and we tailgate any chance we get. All good nights must end in a diner, preferably with cheese fries. It's a sub, not a hoagie or a hero. and I wash it down with soda, not pop. I have a dawg, and I drink cawfee. ..and New York City, is "the city." We know 65 mph means 80 mph."-Anon
Foolish then, is he who departs from the Vicar of Christ Crucified, who has the keys of the Blood, or who goes against him . . . Even though the pope were satan incarnate himself, I may not lift up my head against him, but I must always humble myself, and beg for the Blood as a mercy, for in no other wise can I obtain a part of it -St. Catherine of Sienna.
If desire has equal power with actual Baptism, you would then be satisfied to desire Glory, as though that longing itself were Glory!-St. Gregory Nazianzen.
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DrBombay
Quintessential Heckler
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2009, 11:03:PM » |
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Since our resident pedant hasn't checked in yet, I'll point out that the protties and new fangled Catholics call it Revelation......no "s." It's properly called Apocalypse of course. Yea, that's pretty much all I have to contribute, thank you for asking.  |
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There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
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Rosarium
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2009, 11:07:PM » |
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Since our resident pedant hasn't checked in yet, I'll point out that the protties and new fangled Catholics call it Revelation......no "s." It's properly called Apocalypse of course. Yea, that's pretty much all I have to contribute, thank you for asking. I've been watching this thread, but didn't post. Contrary to popular thought, I do have restrain in posting, even when I feel like saying something, I often refrain from comment. Of course, if I'm referenced, I usually do post ;) I call it The Apocalypse as well. |
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Iuvenalis
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
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Sacred Heart of Jesus, I trust in Thee!
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2009, 11:43:PM » |
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Since our resident pedant hasn't checked in yet, I'll point out that the protties and new fangled Catholics call it Revelation......no "s." It's properly called Apocalypse of course. Yea, that's pretty much all I have to contribute, thank you for asking. I've been watching this thread, but didn't post. Contrary to popular thought, I do have restrain in posting, even when I feel like saying something, I often refrain from comment. Of course, if I'm referenced, I usually do post ;) I call it The Apocalypse as well. Rosarium is a scalpel, and when it comes to scriptural analysis, that's the instrument you need. Since he's apparently some sort of thread vampire, where you have to invite him inside in order for him to have power to speculate-- Rosarium, consider yourself invoked (referenced). So, my .02 on this (and I'm absolutely baffled by Apocalypse, all the way around, and I've probably spent more time on it than any other book, trying to make sense of what I can): 1- Didishroom, Apocalypse shouldn't qualify as 'semitic' literature, but hellenistic  2- LaramieHirsch Along those lines, whether it was written in a semitic language or not (it wasn't) John was himself a Jew (son of Zebedee, and Salome was probably a Hebress), so he may have been familiar with Hebrew parallelism you're talking about, and may have even used it. However, I'm not aware of any responsible, Catholic, orthodox biblical scholars, or Church Fathers, that have ever suggested that John employed such devices. That being said, I really doubt that there's any sort of subtext in the specific sense in which you ask, or parallelism, etc. to the timeline of Apocalypse, but what do I know? I'm just saying, to be clear: I've never heard of anyone I'd trust, who I think has any sort of authority, ever say anything to suggest such a thing, but I cannot say I've seen this contradicted anywhere either. All speculations wrong or your money back. |
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« Last Edit: May 02, 2009, 11:45:PM by Iuvenalis »
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"It is questionable whether the proper functions of Catholics is to hunt down, "expose" and condemn Catholics they suspect of undue rigidity, disobedience or "material schism"; especially while giving support to a Vatican ecumenical campaign which addresses heretics and actual Schismatics as "separated brethren", Jews as "people of the covenant" and Muslims as "people of God". This is part of the overall contradiction (or inconsistency) that permeates the "conservative" mentality. Cloaked in a pledged loyalty to all things "whatsoever" emanating from the Holy See, many "conservatives" will go beyond the measures taken by the Church leaders, or even disagree with their actual positions. The Hawaii "excommunications" were an obvious example but others can be seen. "Conservatives" denounce as "Schismatic" all those who set foot in SSPX chapels while the Vatican embraces the Schismatics in China. "Conservatives" deny any significant change at the Second Vatican Council while the Pope celebrates the enormity and impact of the changes. "Conservatives" seek the conversion of the Eastern "Orthodox" while the Vatican promises not to "proselytize" them. "Conservatives" deride American bishops while the Pope appoints and promotes the same ones." -Peter Miller "Tolerance is the last virtue of a depraved society When an immoral society has blatantly and proudly violated all the commandments, it insists upon one last virtue, tolerance for its immorality. It will not tolerate condemnation of its perversions. It creates a whole new world in which only the intolerant critic of intolerable evil is evil." - H. Gibson(5 x 10 x 17) x (5 x 10 x 17) ≠ 722,500 |
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Rosarium
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2009, 11:56:PM » |
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Rosarium is a scalpel, and when it comes to scriptural analysis, that's the instrument you need. Since he's apparently some sort of thread vampire, where you have to invite him inside in order for him to have power to speculate-- Rosarium, consider yourself invoked (referenced).
Hm, I don't know what to make of this... I don't have much thoughts on the initial topic worth sharing. I keep my opinions on scripture to myself, unless I can back it up with more learned sources than myself. |
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Iuvenalis
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
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Personality type: Picador
Posts: 4,152
Sacred Heart of Jesus, I trust in Thee!
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2009, 12:36:AM » |
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Rosarium is a scalpel, and when it comes to scriptural analysis, that's the instrument you need. Since he's apparently some sort of thread vampire, where you have to invite him inside in order for him to have power to speculate-- Rosarium, consider yourself invoked (referenced).
Hm, I don't know what to make of this... I don't have much thoughts on the initial topic worth sharing. I keep my opinions on scripture to myself, unless I can back it up with more learned sources than myself. I was referring to this: "Of course, if I'm referenced, I usually do post" So, I referenced you, now post freely. Vampires have to be invited into a home before they enter, I just giggled when you made it sound like I had to utter an incantation to summon you or something. |
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"It is questionable whether the proper functions of Catholics is to hunt down, "expose" and condemn Catholics they suspect of undue rigidity, disobedience or "material schism"; especially while giving support to a Vatican ecumenical campaign which addresses heretics and actual Schismatics as "separated brethren", Jews as "people of the covenant" and Muslims as "people of God". This is part of the overall contradiction (or inconsistency) that permeates the "conservative" mentality. Cloaked in a pledged loyalty to all things "whatsoever" emanating from the Holy See, many "conservatives" will go beyond the measures taken by the Church leaders, or even disagree with their actual positions. The Hawaii "excommunications" were an obvious example but others can be seen. "Conservatives" denounce as "Schismatic" all those who set foot in SSPX chapels while the Vatican embraces the Schismatics in China. "Conservatives" deny any significant change at the Second Vatican Council while the Pope celebrates the enormity and impact of the changes. "Conservatives" seek the conversion of the Eastern "Orthodox" while the Vatican promises not to "proselytize" them. "Conservatives" deride American bishops while the Pope appoints and promotes the same ones." -Peter Miller "Tolerance is the last virtue of a depraved society When an immoral society has blatantly and proudly violated all the commandments, it insists upon one last virtue, tolerance for its immorality. It will not tolerate condemnation of its perversions. It creates a whole new world in which only the intolerant critic of intolerable evil is evil." - H. Gibson(5 x 10 x 17) x (5 x 10 x 17) ≠ 722,500 |
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Rosarium
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2009, 12:42:AM » |
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I was referring to this:
"Of course, if I'm referenced, I usually do post"
So, I referenced you, now post freely. Vampires have to be invited into a home before they enter, I just giggled when you made it sound like I had to utter an incantation to summon you or something.
Ah, I see. I meant I usually respond to people who reference me, not necessarily to the thread as a whole. |
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