Dating guides for Catholics

[Bonifacius]

Furthermore, I object that I don't think that purity is impossible to recover.  If you fight all impure thoughts, looks, etc., as much as possible, then you're being pure.  That you can recover, along with the virtue of chastity.  It's *innocence* that you can't recover.  I am quite innocent in some ways and a thousand miles from innocent in others.  But I am a virgin (I got to second base once in a game of spin-the-bottle), so I think I'm still well-off in *some* regards. 

[JayneK]

To sum up, a lot of the time women don't understand themselves very well either (what they actually like, etc.), and then they're trying to tell men, whom they don't understand very well. 

You are very right about this.  It is common, in my experience, for women to lack self-awareness.  You obviously want advice from men and this is a perfectly reasonable thing for you to want. 

Personally, I am attracted to academics and to Nice Guys (although I suspect you are right about this being unusual) so there very well may be women who will appreciate you for who you are.

Anyhow, I'll be quiet now and let you talk with the men.   

[Bonifacius]

To sum up, a lot of the time women don't understand themselves very well either (what they actually like, etc.), and then they're trying to tell men, whom they don't understand very well. 

You are very right about this.  It is common, in my experience, for women to lack self-awareness.  You obviously want advice from men and this is a perfectly reasonable thing for you to want. 

Personally, I am attracted to academics and to Nice Guys (although I suspect you are right about this being unusual) so there very well may be women who will appreciate you for who you are.

Anyhow, I'll be quiet now and let you talk with the men.   

Thanks for your prayers and comments, JayneK.  I think I was too hasty and harsh above.  I was being defensive about seeking an older man to guide me.  But certainly I would like to hear from you or anyone else (even pants-wearing women! *shudder*) about the ins-and-outs of dating and courtship.  Stuff like this:  has anyone here actually tried to have a chaperone ever-present while dating?  Did you just take things as they came?  In traditionalist families, when were people introduced to the future in-laws?  I'm genuinely curious.  I don't want to start seeing a traditionalist young lady and then muck up through some completely unintentional faux pas. 

And I shouldn't dump on my relatives; maybe the familiarity of the holidays bred some contempt.  My aunts and female cousin decided to teach me how to dance while I was home.  This at the age of 27.  But once again, you read some dating guides (and here I'll name the *wretched* Tradition in Action), and you'll see quotations from St. Francis de Sales and the Cure d'Ars about how dancing is evil, evil, evil! 

[PeterII]

It's inevitable that those who should be reading the Catholics dating guides don't, and the one's who do generally don't need to. 

Experience has shown that to be successful with women, ask them what they want and like, then do the exact opposite.  Seriously, to know the truth, look who they are actually in love with and/or copulate with whether married or not.  That will tell you everything.

[Bonifacius]

It's inevitable that those who should be reading the Catholics dating guides don't, and the one's who do generally don't need to. 

Experience has shown that to be successful with women, ask them what they want and like, then do the exact opposite.  Seriously, to know the truth, look who they are actually in love with and/or copulate with whether married or not.  That will tell you everything.

Are you happily married?  Because for the purposes of this discussion that's how I'm defining "successful with women." 

[Mafalda]

Hi Bonifacius,

why women prefer Jerks over Nice Guys. I proposed that women simply prefer assertive men over unassertive men, period.

It's not that women prefer "jerks," it's that nice guys don't speak up. Women will lose interest and move on - especially Traditional women who expect a man to be a man.

She said that women prefer *confidence,* even quiet confidence, *not* assertiveness.

She's right.

[Bonifacius]

Hi Bonifacius,

why women prefer Jerks over Nice Guys. I proposed that women simply prefer assertive men over unassertive men, period.

It's not that women prefer "jerks," it's that nice guys don't speak up. Women will lose interest and move on - especially Traditional women who expect a man to be a man.

She said that women prefer *confidence,* even quiet confidence, *not* assertiveness.

She's right.

Let's analyze this.  Women lose interest with nice guys because they won't speak up and because they are not men.  Gotcha.  They then move on to more confident men.  True.  *Some* of these confident men are jerks.  I hope we agree on that.  So, yes, women prefer jerks *over nice guys.*  Most women without self-esteem issues do prefer confident pleasant guys over jerks, but they do indeed prefer jerks over stereotypical nice guys.  That's a fact.  And I would point out that while not all assertive men are confident (some are merely desperate to build up their confidence), all confident men, even ones who are usually quiet, will assert themselves -- which simply means speaking up! -- when necessary.  So I come back to it -- assertiveness is one important way in which men demonstrate confidence, and nice guys lose out to jerks by not being assertive enough.  My friend was right about confidence being the key, but her attempt to redefine assertiveness as something inherently wrong (to her, assertiveness only meant "being a prick") is a falsely restrictive definition of the word. 

There, I have just asserted myself by speaking up. 

[Mafalda]

Bonifacius,
I'm dizzy after reading that.  Bottom line: If you're interested in someone let her know - that's the manly thing to do. If she's not interested in a nice guy, it's her loss. The End.   ;D 

[Bonifacius]

I am not currently interested in anyone.  I have lost out enough times by being a Nice Guy.  And if she wants a Nice Guy, then that's *my* loss (and *our* loss), because the relationship will not help me grow and mature to be the man I can be.  So I am no longer interested in a woman who wants to be with a Nice Guy. 

To solve your dizziness:  my friend had a point but was still confused about what she was saying.  You apparently share(d) her confusion to some extent.  The end.

This assertiveness thing just gets easier and easier . . .

[PeterII]

It's inevitable that those who should be reading the Catholics dating guides don't, and the one's who do generally don't need to. 

Experience has shown that to be successful with women, ask them what they want and like, then do the exact opposite.  Seriously, to know the truth, look who they are actually in love with and/or copulate with whether married or not.  That will tell you everything.

Are you happily married?  Because for the purposes of this discussion that's how I'm defining "successful with women." 

I am happily unmarried, but have known many women, biblically speaking.      Marriage is for making babies.  Do you want children now?