Pulling kids out of school

[matthew_talbot]

It looks like I'm going to have to pull my daughter out of her school. Its a society school, and I'm pretty heart broken about it. Its just WAY too expensive, and the more kids we have the less we can afford it. Theres a few reasons, other then that too. the school building itself is tiny, theres no gym,and NO resources, no home ec, and just about nothing fun. Half the teachers arent even registered teachers. They don't have a high school, their only suggestion is send your kids off to Kansas or Post Falls when they get to high school, which I have NO intention of doing. I don't see the point in sending my kids away, paying an arm and a leg, then having to re-do their highschool when they get home, because the credits aren't recognized here.  I wouldn't be able to put my next daughter in anyways, as they wouldn't be able to handle her needs.

So, its looking like my only option is sending my kids to the local Catholic school, which is pretty much across the street from me. Homeschooling isn't an option, I'm so not in any place to handle that. I'm terrified of putting them in a normal school to be honest. I'm scared that I cant teach them their Catechism properly, and they will just all fall away. My husband isn't a ton of help on that front, hes at work alot, its kinda on my shoulders. I'm also scared half to death about the influences, hearing other kids use bad language and taking the Lords name in vain...stuff like that.

Anyone have their kids in normal school? Any advice, or experiences you could share? Some positive stuff would be great!!

Dear Canadian Catholic,

Even though it seems as though you and your husband have made a decision, I offer these observations on SSPX schools for you to consider:

As parents with 3 children in SSPX schools, Joan and I understand some of your frustrations..As to the smallness of your school, lack of a gymnasium etc; these are all things that might be able to be "balanced" somewhat with extracurricular activities (We are indeed, blessed here in Syracuse: Our school building is a former public school on 40 acres with a full gymnasium).

We have had our children in two SSPX schools (St. Louis and Syracuse) and the teaching credentials run the gamut: Everything from PH D's and fully-certified teachers to those who do not even have 4 years of college . Our children's education has not suffered yet, as evidenced by their Iowa Basic Skills test scores and other standardized tests. The best teacher my 10yo son has ever had is a young lady who only has a high school diploma. A degree does not always translate into imbuing the individual degreed with teaching prowess. Nor is lack of formal education necessarily a hindrance to one being an effective teacher. There are a lot of educated idiots out there.

I know that an SSPX school is an extreme burden financially (especially here in The USA...Oh to have tuition vouchers!!..): I work a full-time job and 2 part-time ones, my wife does seamstress work and gives music and French lessons while caring for our children and we still struggle occasionally. Our Rector works with us. Is it possible that a financial benefactor might discreetly be found in your parish to help defray these costs somewhat?

My final advice would be for any parent struggling with similar issues is to consider your little one's souls first. All other considerations are secondary. I know that at an SSPX school, my children's souls are being watched over as God wills. If my children were to attend a public or Novus Ordo school, their innocent little souls would get "eaten alive."

My prayers go out for for your beautiful little one's CC, and that you and your husband are able to discern and do God's will (and if you feel that you have already discerned our Father's will, that you are at peace). God bless you.

 

[calicatholic]

I understand what Matt's saying about keeping your children's souls safe.  It's really the right thing to consider first.  I guess we all approach it in different ways, though.  There is no way I will have my kids attend an SSPX school, lest they pick up some of the more radical ideas that some zealous SSPX folks have about the Church.  To each his own.

Religious education driven at home, no matter what school your kids attend, is probably going to be what makes the difference.  Praying to their guardian angels for intercession probably wouldn't hurt, either.

[matthew_talbot]

I understand what Matt's saying about keeping your children's souls safe.  It's really the right thing to consider first.  I guess we all approach it in different ways, though.  There is no way I will have my kids attend an SSPX school, lest they pick up some of the more radical ideas that some zealous SSPX folks have about the Church.  To each his own.

Religious education driven at home, no matter what school your kids attend, is probably going to be what makes the difference.  Praying to their guardian angels for intercession probably wouldn't hurt, either.

If you knew anything about Canadian Catholic, You would know that her family has a longstanding history of supporting the SSPX, so you can save your liberal, modernist drivel for one who is not quite as educated regarding their faith.

At no time did she say that she was unhappy with the SSPX due to their theological stance..or that she is weary of a "radical" element at their chapel.

Yeah our "folks" are real radicals  ..What is your history with the SSPX that makes you qualified to make such an assertion?..I have been going to SSPX masses several times a week for 19 years. I have probably attended mass at 15-20 of their chapels (my job requires frequent travel) I am not aware of these "radicals" in numbers to warrant the caution that you seem to espouse. Any traditional chapel has it's "crazies, " be it SSPX, FSSP, SSPV, CMRI, Institute of Christ The King, Independent, etc..

Watch out for our priests too..They're also real radicals ..So much so that the ones who are in Rome now, engaged in theological discussions with Roman officials, say mass in The Vatican every day..

I have a sister-in-law who has been a Principal in The Archdiocese of St. Louis for 20 years and has taught in it for 33..She can tell you all about the radicals in the schools affiliated with Novus Ordo Churches..As can two of my sisters, who have also taught in the same archdiocese. They have about 50 years combined experience teaching.  And this in an archdiocese that is known as one of the more conservative in the United States.

Diocesan schools have many teachers who do not regularly practice their faith, some who are not even Catholic..Finding a nun who teaches in them is a rare event. and those that do seem to go out of their way to dress and act more like a layperson than a nun..Having regular interaction with a priest is a rare event too (My children have 5 priests at their school to guide them..And lo-and behold, these 5 priests actually look and act like Catholic priests too :o Unlike "Father Jim," or "Father Bob," who show up at their parents 4th of July barbecue wearing flip-flops and swim trunks...
 
in many modern Catholic schools, the non-Catholic children outnumber the Catholic ones.

They are indoctrinated daily in the Liberal, Modernist, feel-good, all religions are the same crap that drives so many young souls away from their faith..How many children who attend modern Catholic schools go on to even consider a vocation, let alone pursue one (if it is God's will)??...How many of these young people regularly practice their Catholic faith after they are out of their parents home? How many later have children that they raise in the faith of our fathers?

It is absolutely the parents who play the most crucial role in the spiritual formation of their children. But if you are honestly asserting that a child who spends 7 hours a day, five days a week, nine months a year for 12 or 13 years in schools that have an agenda diametrically opposed to the kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ are not going to be harmed than you are delusional, CaliCatholic.

[amasimp]

A little defensive are we?  I guess you missed were calicatholic said, "to each his own."

[RalphKramden]

My kids go to public school.  I'd sooner send them to a Muslim school than a NO Catholic school.  I was nervous at first, but things seem to be OK (fingers crossed).  But we also live in a small rural area.  I suspect it would be different if it was in the city.

I agree with your sentiments, but I don't think all NO schools are created equally, much like NO parishes. We send our kids to NO Catholic schools more for the educational benefits than anything else. The standardized testing scores are 15-20% higher on average, the class sizes are under two-thirds as large and the teachers really seem to care. I'm not even going to try and defend all Catholic schools, I just thank God that we've been blessed with a few of the better ones.

[RalphKramden]

in many modern Catholic schools, the non-Catholic children outnumber the Catholic ones.

They are indoctrinated daily in the Liberal, Modernist, feel-good, all religions are the same crap that drives so many young souls away from their faith..How many children who attend modern Catholic schools go on to even consider a vocation, let alone pursue one (if it is God's will)??...How many of these young people regularly practice their Catholic faith after they are out of their parents home? How many later have children that they raise in the faith of our fathers?

I wish I could say you were wrong, but I can't. I think we all need to pray for these little souls instead of bickering.
I will say that you aren't being 100% fair. As I've said before we have very good Catholic Schools in our area. From our parish alone there have been around a dozen religious vocations in the past four or five years. One of the priestly vocations was even to the FSSP. That is huge compaired to the average. My point is, I think it is just a little unfair to be down on Catholic Schools, there not all bad.
I do agree that the most important religious instructor should be the parents. No matter what if the faith isn't being lived and loved at home it isn't going to be received and passed down. I think that little souls would be safer in a liberal public school with very devout parents then in the best Catholic (SSPX or otherwise) with lukewarm parents. Children crave good parental rolemodels, as a parents it's a little scary to think that I'm going to have to answer for all of these crucial decisions when I meet Our Lord, God willing.

[Satori]

My parish school (my sometime NO parish, that is) seems to be improving. It's being run by very devout Catholics who are serious about teaching the children an orthodox faith and passing on traditions like Latin and sacred chant. Ralph is right that all NO schools are not created equal.

[matthew_talbot]

A little defensive are we?  I guess you missed were calicatholic said, "to each his own."

"to each his own," regarding the salvation of souls?

[matthew_talbot]

in many modern Catholic schools, the non-Catholic children outnumber the Catholic ones.

They are indoctrinated daily in the Liberal, Modernist, feel-good, all religions are the same crap that drives so many young souls away from their faith..How many children who attend modern Catholic schools go on to even consider a vocation, let alone pursue one (if it is God's will)??...How many of these young people regularly practice their Catholic faith after they are out of their parents home? How many later have children that they raise in the faith of our fathers?

I wish I could say you were wrong, but I can't. I think we all need to pray for these little souls instead of bickering.
I will say that you aren't being 100% fair. As I've said before we have very good Catholic Schools in our area. From our parish alone there have been around a dozen religious vocations in the past four or five years. One of the priestly vocations was even to the FSSP. That is huge compaired to the average. My point is, I think it is just a little unfair to be down on Catholic Schools, there not all bad.
I do agree that the most important religious instructor should be the parents. No matter what if the faith isn't being lived and loved at home it isn't going to be received and passed down. I think that little souls would be safer in a liberal public school with very devout parents then in the best Catholic (SSPX or otherwise) with lukewarm parents. Children crave good parental rolemodels, as a parents it's a little scary to think that I'm going to have to answer for all of these crucial decisions when I meet Our Lord, God willing.

As to this post Ralph, I am being cross..CaliCatholic took what I viewed as a cheap shot at SSPX parishioners..This had nothing to do with Canadian Catholic's original post or the dilemma she was facing.

It was not only irrelevant, but was (I think) passive-aggressively rude and uncalled for. I am sick of this and similar pettiness concerning the SSPX

As for praying for her children, I did and continue to do so, as noted in my original post.

[Iuvenalis]

Talbot's a solid dude, I give his intentions the benefit of the doubt, and he 'owned' being cross. I can see his point, as the person whom he was addressing seemed to have very little (if any?) experience with the SSPX, and Talbot clearly has, but I digress. My point on that is just let's not let the 'charity policing' hijack this.

To the OP (CC!):

I'm not being flippant (lest I incur the wrath of Talbot), but I think people put way too much stock in school. I went to public schools nearly my entire life, and they generally do (with exceptions) have far less 'facilities' etc. I definitely got a good public education, even my university was/is public (Berkeley) and I actually became Catholic as a result of studies I began there while reading the likes of Anselm, Aquinas, Bonaventure, Hildegard of Bingen, and of course Augustine (and others).  I'm not making my point well

Dangit, let me collect my thoughts...

So, here's the thing, I think that the school is less important than the person in that school, and that person has everything to do with their family and how they are/were.

I think that there's a selection bias at SSPX and other 'good' schools too. That is, people that value education a lot or strong catechesis would naturally send their children to certain schools whenever possible.

I don't think it's the school (probably doesn't hurt), I think it's the family. If you value your faith, practice it, teach it, I think they will too. As long as they're not getting stabbed or something, they can get a diploma, get the necessary grades to get the piece of paper called a diploma and you can fill in the (probably significant gaps) in their faith, morals etc.

Another point being, parents that rely on the expensive or otherwise 'good' schools to educate their children end up not getting it.

I've seen this with secular and religious education, both! Parents scrimp, save or sacrifice or seek the best school or the Catholic or SSPX school and they think that will take care of it. I've known incredibly poorly catechized kids that came out of fairly orthodox schools. I've known lackluster intellects that went to 'the best' schools from a secular perspective-- the same principle applies basically. Their parents sent them to Harvard-Westlake High and their kids ostensibly had 'the best' education in LA County, but I'm unimpressed with a lot of these guys (and was in  college). Not to mix secular and religious education examples, but I think the principle is the same.

Don't put too much stock in the schools, it's the parenting-- believe you me.

There's a couple schools in east LA that have super high test scores but are so poor and run down they qualify for all kinds of aid. No teacher wants to teach there, so they get some fairly shoddy ones. What's with the test scores and later college acceptance then? Well, it happens to be a neighborhood of E. LA full of asian immigrants, and their parents see to it that the kid studies hard, etc. Why do their Latino peers in the same situation fare so much worse? Parental priorities.

The same is true for the faith, don't expect you can send your kid to some Catholic Hogwarts and it'll take care of itself. I'm sure you don't expect this already, so don't put too much stock in the schools.

Talbot has a great situation, but keep in mind, the man makes super sacrifices and efforts to give his family what he gives them. You see, it's not that wonderful school, it's their Dad.

edited to add: I think this 'self selection' applies to homeschoolers too. Anyone who'd value their child's education/faith that much to make that kind of effort would end up with a solid kid in even public schools. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.