Norman Finkelstein tears up the holocost card

[alaric]

At Finkelstein's site, he posted a reaction to the video from a friend:

...The reason and motivation of the young lady in voicing her distress with “Nazi and German” statements is that as most young Germans, she is a carrier of the heavy burden of eternal guilt. Guilt from her ancestors, her people, who committed incomprehensible evil. Which evil horrifies her more than anyone, and for which all dislike of THEM is perfectly justified. But not of HER. SHE is not a Nazi........

.........In other words, her tears are really FOR HERSELF – she does not understand how you cannot understand the ‘new situation’, why you seemingly do not differentiate between ‘then’ and ‘now’, leaving her truly hurt at being so maligned.

First of all, I'm at work and can't watch the vid.  Second of all, work is awesome when you can just mess around on FE and get paid for it.  Thirdly, this commenter seems to be accusing Finkelstein of not distinguishing between "then" and "now", yet says (unless I read it wrong) that the girl is not a nazi but is a carrier of ETERNAL guilt...So who has the problem distinguishing between then and now???  I'm the son of a German immigrant who was born in the early 30s.  Guess what my dad's dad was...I'm certainly not guilty of anything earlier generations have done.

If the present day Germans supposedly carry this "eternal guilt" for the holocost than how much more so are those who crucified the Son of God.......

[stvincentferrer]

Excellent point! I'd love to see some bishop say that.

[Bonifacius]

Yeah, but is that what the young woman was really saying?  It's unclear what she's saying and I don't think that the guy who posted on Finkelstein's site necessarily knows what this young woman was trying to say.  Could we have a link to the post on Finkelstein's site?  Whatever her point was, 1.) she was accusing Finkelstein of something, and 2.) she was too emotional to do it.  If I were Finkelstein, I would probably have made the inferences he did.  She said that his comments were offensive to people who suffered under the Nazis --   So he said, "Look, my folks were in the concentration camps, so don't you lecture me on offending Holocaust survivors."  Is there any solid reason to think that this woman is either Jewish or German? 

[Cassius_Longinus]

At Finkelstein's site, he posted a reaction to the video from a friend:

...The reason and motivation of the young lady in voicing her distress with “Nazi and German” statements is that as most young Germans, she is a carrier of the heavy burden of eternal guilt. Guilt from her ancestors, her people, who committed incomprehensible evil. Which evil horrifies her more than anyone, and for which all dislike of THEM is perfectly justified. But not of HER. SHE is not a Nazi........

.........In other words, her tears are really FOR HERSELF – she does not understand how you cannot understand the ‘new situation’, why you seemingly do not differentiate between ‘then’ and ‘now’, leaving her truly hurt at being so maligned.

First of all, I'm at work and can't watch the vid.  Second of all, work is awesome when you can just mess around on FE and get paid for it.  Thirdly, this commenter seems to be accusing Finkelstein of not distinguishing between "then" and "now", yet says (unless I read it wrong) that the girl is not a nazi but is a carrier of ETERNAL guilt...So who has the problem distinguishing between then and now???  I'm the son of a German immigrant who was born in the early 30s.  Guess what my dad's dad was...I'm certainly not guilty of anything earlier generations have done.

If the present day Germans supposedly carry this "eternal guilt" for the holocost than how much more so are those who crucified the Son of God.......

I know, I wasn't about to throw in that whole can of worms for the fishies though.  Thanks for mentioning it, alaric.

[Gerard]

Complaints based on emotion, arguments made on an emotional basis, rebuttals made on emotional basis.   

More and more, emotion is being used to control, persuade, dominate and dismiss people.  It's just evidence of the world being so topsy turvy. 

The world needs the Catholic faith more than ever to see reason as the controlling agent of emotion. 

Finkelstein, if he really wanted to make a point could have actually asked the girl to explain herself gently, coaxed out of her what she meant and used the opportunity to clarify and repeat his own points.  If he was upsetting her because he was sloppy in using terms like "German" to mean "Nazi" ...well, if he's trying to persuade people of the rightness of his cause, he should take the time to clarify his points and not get into a shouting match.  He should be able to modify his argument (opposing Jewish treatment of Palestinians) to be palatable to the Germans who are conditioned from early ages on to "carry the guilt" of the reputed events of WWII.  They have developed a neo-Helsinki syndrome related to "the Jews" (whoever they are this week)   But his position is "in your face" and it goes head to head against the conditioning of the German stigma placed on modern Germans. 

 His parents were in camps before he was born.  He wasn't at the camps when they were there.  He couldn't have visited them when they were there and suffered the emotional consequences of seeing them in captivity.   But the emotional ploy works just the same when the yelling starts.  He becomes one of the mob and just has a microphone to play emotional one-upsmanship with the audience.  I would be surprised if he actually swayed one person to his position with the way things played out.  I bet the audience was just as divided when they went out as when they went in.

[i.p.i.]

Yeah, but is that what the young woman was really saying?  It's unclear what she's saying and I don't think that the guy who posted on Finkelstein's site necessarily knows what this young woman was trying to say.  Could we have a link to the post on Finkelstein's site?  Whatever her point was, 1.) she was accusing Finkelstein of something, and 2.) she was too emotional to do it.  If I were Finkelstein, I would probably have made the inferences he did.  She said that his comments were offensive to people who suffered under the Nazis --   So he said, "Look, my folks were in the concentration camps, so don't you lecture me on offending Holocaust survivors."  Is there any solid reason to think that this woman is either Jewish or German? 

it does sound like she is saying that it is offensive to Germans when he talks about Nazis.  i've listened several times.  of course she's crying which makes her more difficult to understand and she says something about the Holocaust, too.  i think she's saying it's offensive both to holocaust survivors and to Germans (to suggest that all Germans are Nazis?)

it's illegal in Germany to question anything about the holocaust and i think young Germans must have a lot of guilt laid on them in school.  it's crazy because if anybody in her family was a Nazi it would have been her grandfather or great-grandfather, whom she may never have known.

here's the link:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/on-the-youtube-lady-who-cried-and-the-youtube-commentators-who-vomited-a-close-friend-reflects/

the friend goes on to discuss comments on youtube -- those are the comments referred to in tha portion i posted -- which i'm sure are as ugly as stated, knowing how youtube comments go. 

but i don't know if the friend is right about the girl being German and not Jewish, i just thought it was worth posting to see if others hear it that way.  i did hear it that way before i went to FInkelstein's site, by the way, that she was complaining about what he said being insulting to Germans and to Holocaust survivors.  Jews can certainly be redheads and if she is a German Jew, she'd be doubly offended because of the way she interpreted his remarks, based on her cutural conditioning.

[devotedknuckles]

This appears tp have taken place at the university of waterloo. Interesting as I belive up till wwii waterloo was called new germany or new berlin. Allot of menonites around there. I only go to piclk up menonite sausages.
Also having been a stedent at a canadian university I synpethize with finkilstien in this. Its alomst impossible to have any meaningull discussion without a very strong and organized zionist lobby and left shouting u down and at times physically shutting u down. Its highly unlikely that finkelstien could of been able to gently coax this lass and have a dicussion. That's not why she was there. She was there to attack and trap him so the zionist could shut it down. Its an old play from an old playbook that works
I've seen it. Many times
.

[James02]

The sick part about this video.  I think the girl wasn't crying crocodile tears like Norman thought.  I think she really did start crying because he called Israelis Nazis, or whatever he said.  The youth of today have really been fried by all of the reprogramming.  Just look at her with her arms around her head.  Weird.  In the past you would just say "go f*&^ yourself" and maybe gotten into a fight to settle it.  Weird.  Creeping me out.

[devotedknuckles]

if this wasnt a catholic forum i sure know what i thing she needs
cough
anyway back to the thread
sip sip sip

[Foligno]

Yeah, but is that what the young woman was really saying?  It's unclear what she's saying and I don't think that the guy who posted on Finkelstein's site necessarily knows what this young woman was trying to say.  Could we have a link to the post on Finkelstein's site?  Whatever her point was, 1.) she was accusing Finkelstein of something, and 2.) she was too emotional to do it.  If I were Finkelstein, I would probably have made the inferences he did.  She said that his comments were offensive to people who suffered under the Nazis --   So he said, "Look, my folks were in the concentration camps, so don't you lecture me on offending Holocaust survivors."  Is there any solid reason to think that this woman is either Jewish or German? 

it does sound like she is saying that it is offensive to Germans when he talks about Nazis.  i've listened several times.  of course she's crying which makes her more difficult to understand and she says something about the Holocaust, too.  i think she's saying it's offensive both to holocaust survivors and to Germans (to suggest that all Germans are Nazis?)

it's illegal in Germany to question anything about the holocaust and i think young Germans must have a lot of guilt laid on them in school.  it's crazy because if anybody in her family was a Nazi it would have been her grandfather or great-grandfather, whom she may never have known.

here's the link:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/on-the-youtube-lady-who-cried-and-the-youtube-commentators-who-vomited-a-close-friend-reflects/

the friend goes on to discuss comments on youtube -- those are the comments referred to in tha portion i posted -- which i'm sure are as ugly as stated, knowing how youtube comments go. 

but i don't know if the friend is right about the girl being German and not Jewish, i just thought it was worth posting to see if others hear it that way.  i did hear it that way before i went to FInkelstein's site, by the way, that she was complaining about what he said being insulting to Germans and to Holocaust survivors.  Jews can certainly be redheads and if she is a German Jew, she'd be doubly offended because of the way she interpreted his remarks, based on her cutural conditioning.

The article was obnoxious.  The friend just casually asserts as a given that Germans have a burden of "eternal guilt," then goes on for several paragraphs asserting his diagnosis of this woman's thoughts and feelings  (that he drew from a few seconds of a near- unintelligible emotional outburst) as if he's Dr. Phil.  What is with the sweeping fascination Jews have with psychology/psychiatry anyway?  I've only been psycho-analyzed by Jews before, and I see them habitually psycho-analyze others.  It's annoying.  They'll "interpret" people and accuse them of having whatever thoughts and feelings that is most convenient for them to believe about their 'patient' at the time.   And what can a victim of a Dr. Phil-wannabe do but deny their diagnosis?  That doesn't work since denying it just 'proves' you suffer from "denial" and only 'confirms' their diagnosis they pulled out of their rear.  Pffft! @ psycho-analysis by Dr. Phil wannabe's. 
And then the friend finishes off with justifying the defensiveness of Israeli's because they're so scared of antisemitic comments on youtube.   He then blasts our rights to free-speech and how grateful he is that in Germany if even a tenth of what was uttered by a German that was uttered by a youtube commenter then they would be thrown in jail "as they should be." 

Yuck @ Finkelstein's friend.