Okay. Derailing has to be intentional for it to be against forum rules? I didn't know that.
Thread topics always drift.
However, the current rules do not seem to address it. Most moderators of most forums will only punish those who intentionally change the topic of a thread.
This board is an English language-based board. Don't post things in other languages unless you provide translations, are asking for translations of Church-related materials, are attempting to show a primary source in a contentious issue, are doing so ordinately in an otherwise English post, or are posting things in Latin in an appropriate way and in the appropriate place. If for such a good reason you need to post in a non-English language, indicate so in your subject line, e.g.: Pope's Letter to Artists (Spanish)
Note, though, that there are many people who post here whose first language isn't English; we have members whose first language is French, German, Dutch, Polish, etc. So if you come across a misspelled word, the occasional bit of bad grammar, an apparent insult, etc., make sure the issue isn't a matter of someone trying to express himself in a language he doesn't think in.
Do you think I'm just making assumptions? Are all these people just making assumptions against you and only you in this one area?
No. Did I write that?
People make assumptions. I suppose there is a reason for it. However, much of the time, in my experience in communicating with people, they make assumptions and hold those assumptions above the actual statements I make. Communication is around 22% actual ideas and 78% addressing the perceptions of a person. It is easier to talk to schizophrenics then regular people (I have talked to many of both types of people).
"mid drift" should be spelt "midriff" and this forum contains a lot of errors like this.
Yes, the latter was my error. But don't toot your horn too much. I wouldn't want to start 'correcting' your humility; that would be counterproductive for me.
The simple truth is that we all make mistakes, and I often make a lot of silly mistakes. Sometimes, that is a result of my ignorance, stupidity, a moment of "not paying attention", typing as fast as possible (and therefore giving minimal thought to grammar usage) because of very limited time, or doing five things at once (like in the middle of a conversation while typing a reply).
I think we should be careful how much we correct innocent mistakes from others lest it should make us proud of our intellect. Remember, we have nothing save that which is from God. That we have a hightened ability (either by more time, superior intellect, or less distractions) to produce higher quality posts is a gift from God and should probably only be used (perhaps in PM so as to avoid occasions of pride?) to correct certain posters who are careless, reckless, or misleading by their lack of clarity .
But those are just my thoughts. I'm sure you have reasons for doing what you do.
Written English is the only standard way of communicating in English. It is a register in itself. The written form is reflecting the spoken form in a way that is quite interesting. They are real words being used to represent totally different words. Midriff for instance is a very old English word which has not changed in pronunciation significantly for over a thousand years. "Bate" is a rarely used word in English, but it means "to hold back" (in a way) as in "abate" (bated breath means "held breath"), yet, we commonly write "baited" which we know to mean something which makes no sense in this context.
It isn't the correction of typos or errors of that nature, but errors deeper in the language. I almost never point out mistakes otherwise unless a person told me to do so (not so much here, but in other places, I've been asked) or the meaning of the statement is possibly changed.
People can be offended if they want, but keep in mind I did not make this language. I just want to be able to use it effectively and that means that others have to as well.
If one does not care, then it does not matter. My posts can be safely ignored. I do not pursue lawsuits for writing incorrectly. However, I do try to use language effectively and precisely because that is how we communicate with each other. It is sad, to me, when what I write is not understood because of a lack of understanding. Communication does not exist if one side fails.
Now, I must resume my research into why the Hindustani word for "wolf" is the same word for "sheep-like". I cannot figure out by myself why the word for wolf is derived from the word for sheep when Sanskrit and Farsi and Arabic all have words for "wolf".
kthxbi
I have not pride in this area. Others seem to assume I do.
If people can find it in themselves to tell me what I should do in social situations without expecting me to accuse them of pride, then surely others can accept that a person is interested in language and improving one's writing ability. It is a very strange situation. Many have told me that I am (in some fashion) "smart", yet I have never claimed to be smart or even to be highly knowledgeable in any area yet if my knowledge in an area is displayed at all in certain situations, then accusations of pride are made.
It is a grave sin in this society for a person of above average intelligence, physical development or beauty to acknowledge what in oneself what is clearly acknowledged by others.
And I know some will think I'm applying the above attributes to myself just by stating that. I am not. I communicate with words, not with spaces between them.
Herr_Mannelig, the point is that everyone makes mistake. When a typo or other mistake is made, there is no reason to dwell on it unless there is good reason to do so. It obviously isn't essential to their salvation, and the meaning is usually clear in context. If it's clear enough that you correct it with the correct spelling, then obviously what they were trying to say is clear enough that you knew what it was. If someone is careless, then send them a PM and say, "Hey, just thought you might like to know that this is correct spelling of _____ just to help you out" or however you want to say it.
But what is the purpose of correcting someone's honest mistakes when, in context, the meaning is pretty clear? If it is to spare someone embarrassment, then posting where everyone else can see it only contributes to that end (PM is useful for avoiding this). If you're doing it for yourself, why? Correcting others shouldn't be something we like to do or seek to do; we should only do it if it is important for someone's spiritual well-being in some way.
Helping someone to make healthier food choices to contribute to that end, but there's no capitalizing on innocent spelling errors, other persons' ignorance, etc..
Language is very important, but you can't eliminate fallibility. I am a perfectionist, too, and it's hard not to correct mistakes, but we mustn't hold others to the same standard to which you hold yourself if you intend to keep your sanity and humility. Not everyone gives 100% in everything they do; that is unfortunate. But that is between them and God. Other people perceive it is as condescending, and it's definitely an occasion of pride. If you are paid to correct other people's mistakes that is one thing, but taking on the responsibility of pointing out everyone's innocent mistakes seems to be another.
I really don't mean to offend you. Just be careful, that's all.
*sigh*
Much of our pride is completely unknown to us. Sensitivity, defensiveness, and absolute certainty that a criticism does not apply to us are good indications that we may actually have pride in that area, but it's invisible to us.
By that I don't mean you are sensitive; I am saying that people don't ordinarily think those things are rooted in pride, but much of them is rooted in pride. It is just an example to show that what most people consider to be their personality (or character) is sometimes a fault that they don't realize. The world will tell you that sensitivity and self-consciousness are personality traits that you have or you don't have. In reality, they are indicators of a lack of certain virtues. I have known many people who overcome their sensitivity when it is treated as a spiritual problem - a lack of humility.
As far as the other posters go, they should welcome the criticism; it is a wonderful opportunity for humility.
This is basic morality, though. Two wrongs don't make a right. So let them tell you what to do in social situations. If you ask for it, then they should give it to you. Similarly, if they ask you how to spell a word, then you should tell them. But if you don't ask them, they shouldn't be correcting every social mistake you make (unless, of course, it is a spiritual problem of which you need to be aware). And if they don't ask, you shouldn't be correcting every innocent mistake they make; just overlook it unless someone's truly embarrassing themselves. In that case, explain it to them in PM as to avoid further embarrassment where everyone can see. And if they insist on pointing out innocent little social mistakes, that doesn't give you a right to start doing right back. Humility is in taking seriously their criticisms of your mistakes but in overlooking their mistakes.
Knowledge should be used when it's desired or necessary, not be forced on people. Obviously, someone could know the spelling of a word but misspell it out of haste. Since everyone makes mistakes, then just overlook it. Assume that that is what happened instead of assuming they are ignorant. Use your knowledge to help them if they ask for it or if it becomes obvious that they don't know. Fact-flinging is dangerous. It elicits an "I know more than you" mentality. I know some very holy people who have so much knowledge you would think they were a machine, but they don't go around telling everyone all about it unless someone asks them about it or it is important for someone else to know.
I'm sorry, I would respond, but I'm not sure what that says. Perhaps I am just not reading it correctly.
Okay, now that I'm reading it again I think you meant to eliminate the first "what". In that case, acknowledging is one thing. Making the world acknowledge it by showing it to everyone else is another.
It is intellectually honest to acknowledge a compliment if it honestly applies to you. One can internally acknowledge that one is intelligent. But that acknowledgment doesn't make it not dangerous to go about correcting those who are not so intelligent, especially when the mistake was unintentional and their meaning was clear. If the meaning is that unclear and you can't figure out what it means, simply ask the person what they meant by it.
Okay. No, I don't think that. I just don't think it's the correct attitude to have (above). Ad majorem Dei gloriam.
Your point's well made, I think, but the adage about trying to teach a pig to sing comes to mind...
I really don't think Herr_Mannelig is arrogant, but I do think that he sometimes gives the wrong impression about himself. A lot of us give the wrong impression about ourselves and we could all stand to keep this humility in mind.
It is my fault. However, it was not an intentional derailing and thus is not against forum rules. Also, anyone can resume the discussion...discussing cheeks and mammary glands never gets old.
Your point is clear, and I know people have wrong impressions of me sometimes (you should see the impressions I give in real life), but it beats the mis-impressions that people have had in the past, so I am not disturbed by it beyond the already mentioned sadness of the common lack of attention to the words I use for making judgements instead of one's own assumptions.
I like to be corrected. I dislike correcting others. However, that is how we learn, or at least, how I do.
Herr is a very nice guy, people in general have terrible grammar and spelling, and butt cheeks are funny.
People in general are not aware of grammar. Grammar is fluid, not set in stone. One can describe how grammar is used by a certain group, and then make that the "correct" form, but that can be quite arbitrary. The formal correct Arabic for example that is taught in all schools in Arabic speaking countries is not actually spoken by any Arabic population.
As for this though, the issue isn't spelling or grammar as such as the words are spelled correctly, they are just the wrong words. It shows a gap in understanding (we know what was meant), but we did not distinguish it in writing, which is crucial sometimes. In some accents, spelling can be the difference between axing someone and asking them something. In a way, spelling is too good. We use words which are real for meanings that are obviously not correct (drift, bait, peak), but since that is how we say it, we use it.
I would not say I am nice. I try to be more. (This is a real reference to attention to detail, which is often lost on people. See:
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3430773.msg33285177.html#msg33285177 ). I'll give the answer: "nice" does not have a...nice...meaning. It is a very odd word. It is in the middle of a transition.
You're definitely number three. It is unfortunate that this meaning of the word "nice" has largely fallen out of use in favor of the "pleasant" meaning, since "nice" with meaning number three is, well, nice. Defines that particular quality with a great deal of precision and exactitude.
Do you think I'm just making assumptions? Are all these people just making assumptions against you and only you in this one area?
If it helps, I am not well-understood either. I analyze everything way too much, and I often appear to be argumentative, overly technical, and, yes, critical of others. Wisdom is in realizing that not everyone thinks the way I do, so I'm trying to learn to take things in stride and stop being so technically correct with everyone. In this case, however, I don't think I'm being technically correct so much as I'm trying to be spiritually practical. (For the record, I did not discuss this in PM because 1) we already have, and 2) I think we could all stand to benefit from this sort of humility, myself included.) Perhaps I am being overly and unnecessarily critical. If I am, just tell me and I'll leave you alone because this has been said of me before (though usually by hypersensitive people who don't like spiritual correction). I just want to make it understood that I'm trying to help you, not belittle you.
Yes. I agree. But simple, one-time mistakes don't always equal ignorance (not stupidity, but lack of knowledge).
If it helps, I am not well-understood either. I analyze everything way too much, and I often appear to be argumentative, overly technical, and, yes, critical of others.
Sometimes, "I like grapes" means "I like grapes". Don't read too much into my statements unless it is a logical progression or it doesn't seem to make sense.
Yes. I agree. But simple, one-time mistakes don't always equal ignorance (not stupidity, but lack of knowledge).
Simple, one-time corrections do not equal anything but one-time corrections.
If it were any one else, I bet it would have been noted (the spelling) without much ado.
I corrected the mistake, and gave a comment on the comment and moved on. Should two pages of discussion followed? (That isn't a serious question).
