Fish Eaters Traditional Catholic Forum
May 18, 2013, 12:57:AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The man still needs help!
 
   Fish Eaters    Forum Index   Forum Rules   Help Calendar Members Chat Room   Who's Chatting   Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]
 
Author Topic: A Serious Man  (Read 1782 times)
devotedknuckles
the causes go, true rebels remain
Member

Personality type: incorrigible buffalo
Posts: 20,680



« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2010, 08:34:PM »

Man that movie  was funny
few made made me laugh  like that
what a film!!!!!!!!
A masterpiece
I actually knees a twisted lass like the one in that
cough
fun but dangerous
the rodent and bathtub scene was
carrerr out
lol
Logged

This is the journey
from which, for me there shall be no return
wholly drenched
is the pine tree of  tears
-Yoshida Shoin
Scipio_a
No, you're not a trad...you're a BITTER zealot.
Member

Gender: Male
Location: TX
Personality type: balanced
Posts: 9,502



« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2010, 10:54:AM »

another one I'm gonna have to see.

Their two best so far are Miller's Crossing and O Brother.

Haven't seen Miller's Crossing, yet, but it's on my Netflix queue.

TX can tell you, I sent it to him....the dialog is snappy.
Logged

"Scipio Bull Biscuits, a flawlessly indoctrinated feminist male." - paraphrased from voxpop in one of his shining moments!!

"You've become a full adept to your kabbalistic philosemetism ...why not get it over with and fully convert to Judaism. At lest that would be respectable." - Popscile



"[Scipio's] high on mouth and low on brains"  - a brainiac

"...all I can guess is that maybe you're gay and haven't figured it out yet."   Huh?....LOL

"a malicious twerp" - A candylander

"I ain't no freakin' monument to justice!" -Moonstruck

"Check out the big brain on Brad" - Jules
Foligno
Member

Gender: Female
Posts: 72



« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2010, 04:57:PM »

My college years consisted largely in studying Latin and watching "The Big Lebowski" and "Oh Brother Where Art Thou," but more so "The Big Lebowski."  Walter is such a funny Zionist character -- everything is a matter of taking a militant stand, even when it needn't be. 

The Big Lebowski is among my top 3 favorite movies.  I still watch it fairly frequently.


I added A Serious Man to my Netflix Queue, sounds interesting.  Netflix member reviews were mixed, people seemed to either love it or hate it.


Logged
Scipio_a
No, you're not a trad...you're a BITTER zealot.
Member

Gender: Male
Location: TX
Personality type: balanced
Posts: 9,502



« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2010, 08:50:AM »

Just saw the movie.  I think you are on to something in the OP....but really the dysfunction of which you speak, while having peculiarities for the Jews due to their particular set of beliefs, is really no different than the idea that prots, mohams and Buddhists, etc. will have a black hole right in the middle where it counts.  This is self evident for a Catholic.

On the other hand, I do not agree that the Rabbis did not provide wisdom.  The old rabbi used Grace slicks lyrics

"'When the truth is found to be lies and all the joy within you dies...'  What then?  Be a good boy"


That's right...when there is no anchor that you see, when all falls apart....choose rightly

As for the Rabbi Marshak, the story of the dentist is wise, here he has all these questions, questions no one can answer due to a miracle of inscribed teeth.  It is a story pertinent to the main character, who wonders what God is saying to him with all that is happening...is it a message....and what should he do about it....

The answer is, live you life and be a good boy!....he gets that message partly, he even voices it while at his neighbors and at lest one other place....something about helping neighbors etc...

When he finally falls....gives into the bribe...bang


To tell you the truth, I do not see much different in the presentation of these characters that is so overly different than even what Catholics go through...see Voxpop's latest thread...flailing...looking for answers...looking everyplace but where he should...thinks he should go on retreat....but for what....what answer will they provide him....nothing that has not been suggested on the forum...certainly he will have a good reflection time there...but will he use it...will he see the burden he places on himself that is not only uncalled for but false....and we have lots of people that have go through similar bouts....some lose faith...some don't

Same applies to Jews or anyone else.


Now as for the movie its self....

The North Dakota...LOL....LOL

"There's another Jew, son"....LOL again...jeez...the Cohen bros....LOL

Logged

"Scipio Bull Biscuits, a flawlessly indoctrinated feminist male." - paraphrased from voxpop in one of his shining moments!!

"You've become a full adept to your kabbalistic philosemetism ...why not get it over with and fully convert to Judaism. At lest that would be respectable." - Popscile



"[Scipio's] high on mouth and low on brains"  - a brainiac

"...all I can guess is that maybe you're gay and haven't figured it out yet."   Huh?....LOL

"a malicious twerp" - A candylander

"I ain't no freakin' monument to justice!" -Moonstruck

"Check out the big brain on Brad" - Jules
Texican
Если не я, то кто?
Member

Gender: Male
Location: here. there. everywhere!
Personality type: studený
Posts: 9,505


Déu, força, i honor


« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2010, 08:53:AM »

another one I'm gonna have to see.

Their two best so far are Miller's Crossing and O Brother.

Haven't seen Miller's Crossing, yet, but it's on my Netflix queue.

TX can tell you, I sent it to him....the dialog is snappy.

I've watched it three times, now.
Logged



rbjmartin
Gold Fish
*
Gender: Male
Location: San Antonio, TX
Personality type: sanguine
Posts: 4,850


timorem domini docebo vos


« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2010, 10:38:AM »

Just saw the movie.  I think you are on to something in the OP....but really the dysfunction of which you speak, while having peculiarities for the Jews due to their particular set of beliefs, is really no different than the idea that prots, mohams and Buddhists, etc. will have a black hole right in the middle where it counts.  This is self evident for a Catholic.

On the other hand, I do not agree that the Rabbis did not provide wisdom.  The old rabbi used Grace slicks lyrics

"'When the truth is found to be lies and all the joy within you dies...'  What then?  Be a good boy"


That's right...when there is no anchor that you see, when all falls apart....choose rightly

As for the Rabbi Marshak, the story of the dentist is wise, here he has all these questions, questions no one can answer due to a miracle of inscribed teeth.  It is a story pertinent to the main character, who wonders what God is saying to him with all that is happening...is it a message....and what should he do about it....

The answer is, live you life and be a good boy!....he gets that message partly, he even voices it while at his neighbors and at lest one other place....something about helping neighbors etc...

When he finally falls....gives into the bribe...bang


To tell you the truth, I do not see much different in the presentation of these characters that is so overly different than even what Catholics go through...see Voxpop's latest thread...flailing...looking for answers...looking everyplace but where he should...thinks he should go on retreat....but for what....what answer will they provide him....nothing that has not been suggested on the forum...certainly he will have a good reflection time there...but will he use it...will he see the burden he places on himself that is not only uncalled for but false....and we have lots of people that have go through similar bouts....some lose faith...some don't

Same applies to Jews or anyone else.


Now as for the movie its self....

The North Dakota...LOL....LOL

"There's another Jew, son"....LOL again...jeez...the Cohen bros....LOL



I agree that the same bit about dysfunction could be said for any non-Catholic society, as they will all have that hole in their lives that can only be filled by knowing God as He truly is.  But what I like so much about this movie is that it specifically depicts Jewish-American (and even Midwestern Jewish-American) dysfunctionality.  That's what makes it a great movie.  It gets the little subtle details down. It makes it much easier to identify with the main character; because you sense that he is real.

I agree that the rabbis provide SOME sort of wisdom, but it is very limited, and they aren't really answers, and they aren't exceptional.  I thought the old rabbi quoting Grace Slick was a disappointing moment, and I think the Cohen brothers built it up to be that way.  The boy's father tries all movie to see the old rabbi, but is denied.  When the boy finally meets him, you're expecting to hear some ancient gems of wisdom, culled from millenia of Jewish experience and wisdom, and what does the rabbi do?  He quotes a modern pop song, and the lyrics themselves are nihilistic (truth is lies, joy dies).  I found the "be a good boy" advice to be generic and a little condescending, requiring hardly any mental effort.

The difference between the way the main character struggles and the way a Catholic would go through the same struggles is that a Catholic can see meaning in his suffering.  He knows it can be redemptive and be offered to God as a sign of love, while the Jewish approach of receiving with simplicity everything that happens is ultimately unfulfilling.  It still leaves one in a confused and directionless state.  Likewise, I think if a faithful Catholic were faced with something miraculous like the dentist episode, he would seek an answer from God in prayer, and have confidence that God would make His will known to him.  He wouldn't simply resign himself to believing the miracle was basically meaningless.

Some reviewers have likened this movie to a modern day telling of the book of Job, but I don't think the analogy really fits.  Job was a righteous man.  The main character in this movie isn't particularly evil, but he's not a saint, either.  He lives a pretty lukewarm existence, following a very conventional morality.  He refuses the bribe from the Korean student (most people know that it's wrong to accept bribes), but he also ogles his married, sunbathing neighbor (most people are very sympathetic when it comes to sins of the flesh).  He is not deeply religious, but only conventionally so, resorting to religion when he is faced with difficult times. 

I don't think we can make a direct connection between his giving into temptation at the end of the movie and the evils that ensue from there.  The movie begins with his medical examination.  The results are only revealed at the end.  This means that for the duration of the movie, his body has been carrying whatever illness his doctor has discovered, even before giving in to the bribe.  So regardless of his actions, his fate seems already decided.  That seems to be an overarching theme in the movie.  No matter what you do, God has already decided your fate.  His reasoning is inaccessible to us, and we just have to accept it with simplicity.  But unlike with our Catholic spirituality, there is no understanding that one can work with God's grace to change one's fate, and that in doing so, one can draw good out of evil.
Logged

Nolite confidere in principibus. - Psalm 145
Scipio_a
No, you're not a trad...you're a BITTER zealot.
Member

Gender: Male
Location: TX
Personality type: balanced
Posts: 9,502



« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2010, 05:14:PM »

Well, an old rabbi or priest quoting lyrics to a pop song is not disappointing to me.  I know a lot of folks on here see pop anything as beneath, as it were, what is worth discussing or devoid of anything really important.  That is wrong headed.  The nuggets of truth to be mined are just as good there as anyplace.  And the lyrics themselves taken out of the context of a 60s revolution that wanted to impart and impress subjectivism or nihilism on the world, do not contain only that meaning....the words used were very pertinent...and what's more...aimed at his target audience...a teen boy.

Take this as you would seeing the picture of reality that Tolstoy could paint, they guy was solid in his portrayal of the world as were several other notable authors...yet they, observing as acutely and accurately as they did....could not draw right conclusions and pushed economic forms that are anathema...

The same applies to pop artists.

And while some may find the advice to be "good", generic, the simple man is the better and wiser man in my experience, which is one reason I am at constant war with the "brains" here.   "Brains" are enamored of their brain...and the problem with that is that the brain can fail us.  Thus my preference for the simple...why push people to think when most are sorely lacking the tools?  If this were not the case we would have absolutely no need for the Church...we'd be able to divine it all for ourselves.

As for the redemptive power of suffering, It seems in the cursory search I just did that that there are varying opinions from Jews as to suffering....maybe Jayne can enlighten us to some extent on this....I don't know anything about it.

But I would bet that everything one needs to get to the Christian view is actually contained in the old books so that anyone who was a real thinker could get all the way or very very close.  Kind of like Aristotle who had no books but only natural light and got pretty close.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 05:17:PM by Scipio_a » Logged

"Scipio Bull Biscuits, a flawlessly indoctrinated feminist male." - paraphrased from voxpop in one of his shining moments!!

"You've become a full adept to your kabbalistic philosemetism ...why not get it over with and fully convert to Judaism. At lest that would be respectable." - Popscile



"[Scipio's] high on mouth and low on brains"  - a brainiac

"...all I can guess is that maybe you're gay and haven't figured it out yet."   Huh?....LOL

"a malicious twerp" - A candylander

"I ain't no freakin' monument to justice!" -Moonstruck

"Check out the big brain on Brad" - Jules
Foligno
Member

Gender: Female
Posts: 72



« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2010, 01:44:AM »

I saw it, I liked it a lot.  I laughed to the point of tears streaming down my face in the scene with the second Rabbi.

I did see it as a modern day telling of the book of Job.  The main character being your average good guy but not a righteous saint, notwithstanding.  The theme is the same "Why me?" "What does this all mean?"  The answer is the same:  No answer is actually given.  It's not for us to know. 
"Just be good." isn't really meant as a prescription to cure the tribulations in life, either.  "Just be good," in the good times and in the bad.

The final scene, I thought, was intended to leave the question open, for us to speculate on whether that phone would have rang anyway had he not done what he did.  IMO, It very probably would have.  But we can't be certain, can we?  Angel











Logged
JoeVoxxPop
Member

Gender: Male
Posts: 10,372



« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2010, 04:29:PM »

a corralary film to watch
Part 1 of 12
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haj-CJOERTs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haj-CJOERTs</a>
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
 
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC