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Author Topic: Do we see Calvinists as Christians?  (Read 934 times)
Valz
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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2010, 03:44:PM »

Good catch, Valz!   Wow.

Indeed...quite on point isn't it Smile
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« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2010, 04:45:PM »

This quote from St. Augustine was posted on another thread but I find that it is quite relevant to this subject:

Saint Augustine, Ex Enarratiónibus sancti Augustíni epíscopi in psalmos (Ps 32, 29: CCL 38, 272-273)
"Those then who tell us: You are not our brothers, are saying that we are pagans. That is why they want to baptise us again, claiming that we do not have what they can give. Hence their error of denying that we are their brothers. Why then did the prophet tell us: Say to them: You are our brothers? It is because we acknowledge in them that which we do not repeat. By not recognising our baptism, they deny that we are their brothers; on the other hand, when we do not repeat their baptism but acknowledge it to be our own, we are saying to them: You are our brothers.

If they say, “Why do you seek us? What do you want of us?” we should reply: You are our brothers. They may say, “Leave us alone. We have nothing to do with you.” But we have everything to do with you, for we are one in our belief in Christ; and so we should be in one body, under one head."


This illustrates perfectly the relationship we have with the Calvinists. We recognize their baptism but they do not recognize ours, yet we still consider them brethren whom we'd like to come into communion with The Church.


Valz

Your quote says it all. Moreover, they will have to answer to God for refusing to rightfully call us Christians (for whatever horribly false reasons they may have); the more that information is available to so many (as in our day), the more culpable will those be who persist in ignorance or blindness. May God show them mercy and grant them the grace to know the truth.

Anyway, yes, they are Christians, even though they adhere to vile heresy (i.e. predestinarianism, which states that God created certain people specifically and with the intent to send them to hell). But, as Credo said, in general they are material heretics.
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"It preaches that not only in civil affairs, which is not Our concern here, but also in religion, God has given every individual a wide freedom to embrace and adopt without danger to his salvation whatever sect or opinion appeals to him on the basis of his private judgment.  The apostle Paul warns us against the impiety of these madmen" (Pope Leo XII, Ubi Primum, n. 12).

"Likewise, peace is rooted in respect for religious freedom, which is a fundamental and primordial aspect of the freedom of conscience of individuals and of the freedom of peoples.  It is important that everywhere in the world every person can belong to the religion of his choice and practise it freely without fear" (Pope Benedict XVI, Address to Five New Ambassadors, 18 May 2006).
JesusFreak84
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« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2010, 05:53:PM »

Defining "Christian" as having a Baptism that the Catholic Church would accept, theoretically Calvinism has this, and since Calvinist-based denominations, to their credit, don't seem as inclined to fall into non-trinitarian baptismal formulas (ie "In the name of the creator, the redeemer, and the sanctifier," "mother, child, womb," and other such constructs,) all other things equal they'd be considered as having Christian Baptism.
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StrictCatholicGirl
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« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2010, 06:52:PM »

Defining "Christian" as having a Baptism that the Catholic Church would accept, theoretically Calvinism has this, and since Calvinist-based denominations, to their credit, don't seem as inclined to fall into non-trinitarian baptismal formulas (ie "In the name of the creator, the redeemer, and the sanctifier," "mother, child, womb," and other such constructs,) all other things equal they'd be considered as having Christian Baptism.

I can only vouch for what I heard on John MacArthur's broadcasts - and, yes, they definitely baptized in the Trinitarian formula, not "in Jesus name" only. The problem I have against "them" (Grace Community Church) is that they "re-baptize" Catholics, as well as Protestants baptized as infants. I am assuming that other Calvinist-based denominations do the same.
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kimbaichan
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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2010, 09:31:PM »

Baptists, Pentacostals and non-denoms(which IMO are a combination of the former two groups) will rebaptize a person a much as they want, since Baptism is only a symbol it can be done multiple times.

I would think that once you are baptized into their sect, they would see no further need for multiple baptisms.

I've typically seen it done when someone was "rededicating their life to the Lord." That can mean someone who's stopped going to church and is now coming back but not always.
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JesusFreak84
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« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2010, 01:15:AM »

They're not the only sect that re-baptizes.  The Mormons re-do their "baptism" any time you "leave" the LDS and return later.  I've never read a reason why that's the case, with them or any of the Christian sects.  I also presume that they're not engaging in "conditional" Baptisms as the Church would do for when it's indeterminable if the convert's original baptism was valid.
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