Vetus Ordo
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« on: October 13, 2010, 01:32:PM » |
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"Allah's Apostle said: 'I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight the people until they proclaim, lâ ilâha illallâh (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah)"
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« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 01:38:PM by Vetus Ordo »
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 10:05:AM » |
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[adapted from http://islamreview.blogspot.com] Let's examine how many "Islam is peace and tolerance" myths can be busted using just one page of the tafsir (explanation of the Koran to understand its context) of Ibn Kathir website at tafsir.com. To understand who Ibn Kathir was (notice how tafsir.com doesnt even tell who he was because its assumed everyone reading knows who he was), let's look at the wikipedia bio page where it states: "Tafsir Ibn Kathir is famous all over the Muslim world and among Muslims in the Western world, and is one of the most widely used explanations of the Qu'ran today."1) Tolerance? The order to fight to eradicate shirk and kufr. On the source page, kufr is defined as disbelief. Eradicate disbelief. That's the complete opposite of tolerance. By islamic definition, shirk is "any type of worship outside of the islamic mold". In the tafsir of Koran 9.5, this fighting is commanded to be fought "on the earth in general". (9.5) "Then fight and kill the idolators wherever you may find them.' Allah's statement next, (then fight the Mushrikin wherever you find them), means, on the earth in general."2) Spread by the sword and take their money and resources is proven with the following statement: "I was commanded to fight against the people until they proclaim, `There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah.' If and when they say it, they will preserve their blood and wealth from me."3) What is the purpose of this fighting? Islamic imperialism. Whoever says fighting in Islam is only in self-defense is lying. "Whoever fights so that Allah's Word is the supreme, is in the cause of Allah"4) A non-muslim telling a lie to a muslim is unacceptable, but a muslim telling a lie to a non-muslim is acceptable. This little story below is Muhammad detailing how a last minute conversion in the face of death or calamity to save your skin is illigitimate, hence the references to the 'day of resurrection', and that Muhammad did not condemn Usamah's action. "It is recorded in the Sahih that the Messenger of Allah said to Usamah bin Zayd when he overpowered a man with his sword, after that man proclaimed that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah; (Have you killed him after he proclaimed, `La Ilaha Illallah' What would you do with regard to `La Ilaha Illallah' on the Day of Resurrection.) Usamah said, "O Allah's Messenger! He only said it to save himself.'' The Messenger replied (Did you cut his heart open) The Messenger kept repeating, (What would you do with regard to `La Ilaha Illallah' on the Day of Resurrection) until Usamah said, "I wished I had embraced Islam only that day.'' Allah said next, (And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your protector, an excellent protector, and an excellent helper!) Allah says, if the disbelievers persist in defying and fighting you, then know that Allah is your protector, master and supporter against your enemies. Verily, what an excellent protector and what an excellent supporter."Yet, if the tables are turned, a muslim lying to a non-muslim is acceptable ( tafsir of Koran 3.28) Note the hypocrisy: "(Unless you indeed fear a danger from them) meaning, except those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly. For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda' said, "We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.'' Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, "The Tuqyah is allowed until the Day of Resurrection.'' The tafsir of Ibn Abbas (Muhammad's cousin) says: "With your tongues, but not with your hearts". That's called 'lying'.)"5) Muhammad and Islam's profit motive (more like a mafia pyramid scheme) is declared at the bottom of the page: "And know that whatever of war booty that you may gain, verily, one-fifth of it is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives (of the Messenger), the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer."For more dirty politics for financial gain, also note the tafsirs of Koran 9.29: The order to fight the People of the Book until they pay the Jizyah:"Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Therefore, when People of the Scriptures disbelieved in Muhammad , they had no beneficial faith in any Messenger or what the Messengers brought. Rather, they followed their religions because this conformed with their ideas, lusts and the ways of their forefathers, not because they are Allah's Law and religion. Had they been true believers in their religions, that faith would have directed them to believe in Muhammad , because all Prophets gave the good news of Muhammad's advent and commanded them to obey and follow him. Yet when he was sent, they disbelieved in him, even though he is the mightiest of all Messengers. Therefore, they do not follow the religion of earlier Prophets because these religions came from Allah, but because these suit their desires and lusts. Therefore, their claimed faith in an earlier Prophet will not benefit them because they disbelieved in the master, the mightiest, the last and most perfect of all Prophets . Hence Allah's statement:
"Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture." This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were defeated, the people entered Allah's religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims' control. Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination. The Messenger sent his intent to various Arab areas around Al-Madinah to gather forces, and he collected an army of thirty thousand. Some people from Al-Madinah and some hypocrites, in and around it, lagged behind, for that year was a year of drought and intense heat. The Messenger of Allah marched, heading towards Ash-Sham to fight the Romans until he reached Tabuk, where he set camp for about twenty days next to its water resources. He then prayed to Allah for a decision and went back to Al-Madinah because it was a hard year and the people were weak, as we will mention, Allah willing.
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 11:08:AM by Vetus Ordo »
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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devotedknuckles
the causes go, true rebels remain
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 11:04:AM » |
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Geat thread vetus
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This is the journey from which, for me there shall be no return wholly drenched is the pine tree of tears -Yoshida Shoin
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 11:10:AM » |
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Geat thread vetus
Thank you. Let's hope it helps clear some people's minds about Mohammedanism and its intentions.
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« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 01:21:PM by Vetus Ordo »
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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randomtradguy
A Naomh Seosamh, guí orainn.
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 11:26:AM » |
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first, great thread, senhor. second, this is unrelated, but can someone help me understand the Latin grammar behind a furia mahometana libera nos domine? it would really help, i'm taking latin this quarter and I would like every chance to learn more
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 11:38:AM » |
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can someone help me understand the Latin grammar behind a furia mahometana libera nos domine? A: from (preposition that takes the ablative case) Furia: fury, scourge (feminine noun in the ablative singular; 1st declension) Mahometana: mohammedan (adjective in the ablative singular, feminine; 1st declension) Libera: free, deliver (imperative mood, 2nd person singular; 1st declension: verbs ending in - are) Nos: us (1st person plural pronoun in the accusative; direct object) Domine: O Lord! (masculine noun in the vocative; 2nd declension)
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Robert De Brus
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 12:08:PM » |
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Good video, but this is fueled less by Islam than Albanian nationalism. Albanians arent usually considered serious Muslims, with several decades of atheist propaganda being absorbed. Chronicles has written many an article on the Albanian problem in Serbia.
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 01:24:PM » |
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Good video, but this is fueled less by Islam than Albanian nationalism. Albanians arent usually considered serious Muslims, with several decades of atheist propaganda being absorbed.
Chronicles has written many an article on the Albanian problem in Serbia.
Suffice it to say that Albanian "nationalism" is rooted in no other cause but Islam itself. What defines Islam socially and culturally is its anti-Christian stance, it doesn't matter if they are practicing muslims or not.
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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randomtradguy
A Naomh Seosamh, guí orainn.
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 04:10:PM » |
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can someone help me understand the Latin grammar behind a furia mahometana libera nos domine? A: from (preposition that takes the ablative case) Furia: fury, scourge (feminine noun in the ablative singular; 1st declension) Mahometana: mohammedan (adjective in the ablative singular, feminine; 1st declension) Libera: free, deliver (imperative mood, 2nd person singular; 1st declension: verbs ending in - are) Nos: us (1st person plural pronoun in the accusative; direct object) Domine: O Lord! (masculine noun in the vocative; 2nd declension) is there a reason mahometana is feminine?
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Pilgrim
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 04:12:PM » |
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is there a reason mahometana is feminine?
Because it's an adjective modifying "furia," which is a feminine noun...
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"And so, Lord, do you, who do give understanding to faith, give me, so far as you knowest it to be profitable, to understand that you are as we believe; and that you are that which we believe." -- St. Anselm of Canterbury (1033-1109)
"But Christianity preaches an obviously unattractive idea, such as original sin; but when we wait for its results, they are pathos and brotherhood, and a thunder of laughter and pity; for only with original sin we can at once pity the beggar and distrust the king." -- G. K. Chesterton (1874-1936)
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." Baudelaire and Verbal Kint from The Usual Suspects
"I'm a practicing Catholic; I'm practicing until I get it right." Martin Sheen
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