Pope Benedict gets it wrong on Bishop Williamson in new book

[JayneK]

The Pope clearly said that if he knew beforehand that Bp. Williamson was a "Holocaust denier", that he wouldn't have lifted his excommunication. So there you go. Besides making sure the Church does not pray for the Jews in a "missionary sense", the Pope has also made the Shoah a litmust test for Catholicism, so that his Jewish friends don't get "wounded." Outrageous!

It does not follow from the Pope's comment that he considers the Shoah to be a Catholic dogma.  Far more likely, he is thinking about the scandal involved in removing the excommunication from someone who takes a controversial opinion that is often linked to anti-Semitism.  This is a reasonable thing for the Pope to do.  Much as I admire Bishop Williamson, I think his ministry would be more effective if he did not make public statements on this matter.  If the Pope had asked my advice, I would have told him to go ahead with removing the excommunication but to tell Bishop Williamson to keep quiet on this subject.

[Vetus Ordo]

The Pope clearly said that if he knew beforehand that Bp. Williamson was a "Holocaust denier", that he wouldn't have lifted his excommunication. So there you go. Besides making sure the Church does not pray for the Jews in a "missionary sense", the Pope has also made the Shoah a litmust test for Catholicism, so that his Jewish friends don't get "wounded." Outrageous!

It does not follow from the Pope's comment that he considers the Shoah to be a Catholic dogma.  Far more likely, he is thinking about the scandal involved in removing the excommunication from someone who takes a controversial opinion that is often linked to anti-Semitism.  This is a reasonable thing for the Pope to do. 

So, admiting the excommunication was valid in the first place, you really think it's just and correct to keep a Catholic severed from the Church because he doesn't happen to agree with the prevailing historical consensus about an event in WW2?

You talk about scandal. There's no more scandal in denying the Shoah (which wasn't what Bp. Williamson actually did, but I digress) than to abuse Papal power to keep a son from the Church away from her because it might offend the Jews. It's repugnant.

[Gerard]

 [It does not follow from the Pope's comment that he considers the Shoah to be a Catholic dogma.  Far more likely, he is thinking about the scandal involved in removing the excommunication from someone who takes a controversial opinion that is often linked to anti-Semitism.  This is a reasonable thing for the Pope to do. 

That doesn't make sense at all.  In other words, if you want to steer the Pope into doing or not doing what you want, you make sure whatever the issue is, make it  controversial.   It is not reasonable for non-Catholics to interfere with Catholics prayers, Catholic litrugies, Catholic canonizations of saint or the missionary works of the Church.  Yet he lets them do it all the time.  

Much as I admire Bishop Williamson, I think his ministry would be more effective if he did not make public statements on this matter. 

Bishop Williamson has made statements on the matter 3 times in about 22 years.  The most recent being the interview in late 2008.  In it he says, "Yes, you are quoting from Canada many years ago."   This hasn't been on Bishop Williamson's radar.  This is a manufactured hysteria that scams and cons people to accept as dogma something that should be open to question.  

 If the Pope had asked my advice, I would have told him to go ahead with removing the excommunication but to tell Bishop Williamson to keep quiet on this subject.

The Pope if he really meant all of that Vatican II mumbo jumbo should be complaining about the persecution of someone who doubts or questions a matter of supposed "secular" history.  

[JayneK]

So, admiting the excommunication was valid in the first place, you really think it's just and correct to keep a Catholic severed from the Church because he doesn't happen to agree with the prevailing historical consensus about an event in WW2?

As I said, it is not what I would have recommended the Pope to do if he had asked my advice.  (Oddly enough, the Pope does not ask my advice. ;) )
At any rate, I do not think there is any doctrinal significance to the Pope's comment.  He was discussing a prudential judgment about avoiding scandal, with which judgment we are free to disagree.

[JayneK]

 [It does not follow from the Pope's comment that he considers the Shoah to be a Catholic dogma.  Far more likely, he is thinking about the scandal involved in removing the excommunication from someone who takes a controversial opinion that is often linked to anti-Semitism.  This is a reasonable thing for the Pope to do. 

That doesn't make sense at all.  In other words, if you want to steer the Pope into doing or not doing what you want, you make sure whatever the issue is, make it  controversial.   It is not reasonable for non-Catholics to interfere with Catholics prayers, Catholic litrugies, Catholic canonizations of saint or the missionary works of the Church.  Yet he lets them do it all the time.  

If Bishop Williamson had been making controversial statements about faith that would be a different situation than controversy over history.  The Pope ought to stand up for the faith no matter how controversial.

Much as I admire Bishop Williamson, I think his ministry would be more effective if he did not make public statements on this matter. 

Bishop Williamson has made statements on the matter 3 times in about 22 years.  The most recent being the interview in late 2008.  In it he says, "Yes, you are quoting from Canada many years ago."   This hasn't been on Bishop Williamson's radar.  This is a manufactured hysteria that scams and cons people to accept as dogma something that should be open to question.  

That is a good point.

[Baskerville]

Not only is it not my place to criticize the pope publicly for how he governs the church, I am pretty sure I don't disagree with him on this topic.  That's the end of my contribution to the subject.

Actually many saints did that. What IS wrong is to let an injustice go just because you think its a better virtue to lick the popes shoes. You wouldnt disagree because the pope said it so it MUST be right a pope could never do something stupid nah.

It's also worth pointing out that no saint ever talked about any pope the way you do here on a regular basis.  No saint ever would.

I am not a Saint Catholic Stinker and as far as the Pope goes I am a sedeprivationist. Which essentailly means: There is no sede vacante because a man sits in the chair of Peter and is a potential Pope and if he recants of his modernism and embraces the faith he will become Pope.( soemwhat taken from wikipedia)

The only logical conclusion I can come too. To describe the outright heresy and Modernism of the last 5 Popes is this. Since I dont believe in Sede Vacantism. This is also rumored to be the position Mel Gibson holds.

[Gerard]

If Bishop Williamson had been making controversial statements about faith that would be a different situation than controversy over history.  The Pope ought to stand up for the faith no matter how controversial.  

But look at what the Pope does, he goes to Auschwitz and makes these bizarre statements:

With these words, Benedict set off on a rather remarkable theological meditation on the Holocaust. "Why, Lord" he asked, "did you remain silent?" It is of course an unanswerable question, but one that Benedict used to implore Catholics and non-Catholics alike to pray — and work — so that it never happens again. He unpacked the singular aims of Hitler's Final Solution, and discovered universal religious and Christian theological lessons: "The rulers of the Third Reich wanted to crush the entire Jewish people, to cancel it from the register of the peoples of the earth," he said. "Deep down, those vicious criminals, by wiping out this people, wanted to kill the God who laid down principles to serve as a guide for mankind, principles that are entirely valid.


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1198976,00.html#ixzz16bCOJ8ZP


Read further on and the Pope is dangerously turning the holocaust into Golgotha.  

Williamson is challenging that theological formulation with a rational skepticism that flies in the face of the Holy Father's pseudo-religious political pandering.  

Williamson answers the unanswerable question because he challenges the premise.  

Williamson gets in the way of the Holy Father's politics, so the Holy Father would have preferred to use his religious authority to further his political ends by keeping Williamson "officially " out of the Church.  

[Baskerville]

If Bishop Williamson had been making controversial statements about faith that would be a different situation than controversy over history.  The Pope ought to stand up for the faith no matter how controversial.  

But look at what the Pope does, he goes to Auschwitz and makes these bizarre statements:

With these words, Benedict set off on a rather remarkable theological meditation on the Holocaust. "Why, Lord" he asked, "did you remain silent?" It is of course an unanswerable question, but one that Benedict used to implore Catholics and non-Catholics alike to pray — and work — so that it never happens again. He unpacked the singular aims of Hitler's Final Solution, and discovered universal religious and Christian theological lessons: "The rulers of the Third Reich wanted to crush the entire Jewish people, to cancel it from the register of the peoples of the earth," he said. "Deep down, those vicious criminals, by wiping out this people, wanted to kill the God who laid down principles to serve as a guide for mankind, principles that are entirely valid.


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1198976,00.html#ixzz16bCOJ8ZP


Read further on and the Pope is dangerously turning the holocaust into Golgotha.  

Williamson is challenging that theological formulation with a rational skepticism that flies in the face of the Holy Father's pseudo-religious political pandering.  

Williamson answers the unanswerable question because he challenges the premise.  

Williamson gets in the way of the Holy Father's politics, so the Holy Father would have preferred to use his religious authority to further his political ends by keeping Williamson "officially " out of the Church.  

The problem is B is a German and most Germans today are full of a guilt complex over something that happened 65 years ago. Get over it already.

[Gerard]

The problem is B is a German and most Germans today are full of a guilt complex over something that happened 65 years ago. Get over it already.

I recently found out just how thorough the guilt complex and brain washing is over in Germany.  The children are taught from an early age all about the popular narrative of the holocaust, they are taught jewish folk dances, it's a soup to nuts indoctrination. 

[Baskerville]

The problem is B is a German and most Germans today are full of a guilt complex over something that happened 65 years ago. Get over it already.

I recently found out just how thorough the guilt complex and brain washing is over in Germany.  The children are taught from an early age all about the popular narrative of the holocaust, they are taught jewish folk dances, it's a soup to nuts indoctrination. 

Sad. I thought we had it bad. In high school we had a whole two week indoctrination course on the holocaust topped off by a visit from Eli Weasel.