Resurrexi
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« on: December 08, 2010, 05:19:PM » |
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Vita brevis breviter in brevi finietur,
Mors venit velociter quae neminem veretur,
Omnia mors perimit et nulli miseretur.
Ad mortem festinamus; peccare desistamus.
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icecream
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2010, 05:37:PM » |
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resurrexi is on fire this afternoon!!!
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wanna buy me some ice cream? | ice cream in latin: LAC GLACIALE [frozen milk] | fyi, i'm not catholic . . . yet!
"twerp, you couldn't dominate a cabbage, it'd make you look like an idiot" -- my new best friend
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Gilgamesh
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omnia exeunt in mysterium
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2010, 09:42:PM » |
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I voted no—but the question is loaded, because heresy isn’t determined by what individuals “consider a heresy to be.” There would have to be an objective measure established by the Church. What doctrine of the Catholic faith would be contravened or corrupted by having an opinion on the (non)-necessity of the State?
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“Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
a heap of broken images”
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SouthpawLink
PedisaustralisNexus
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2010, 11:23:PM » |
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I voted no—but the question is loaded, because heresy isn’t determined by what individuals “consider a heresy to be.” There would have to be an objective measure established by the Church. What doctrine of the Catholic faith would be contravened or corrupted by having an opinion on the (non)-necessity of the State?
If the concept of the State has its origin in God -- He has been said to be both the Author of men and of societies -- then yes, it could/would be heresy to deny the natural necessity of the State (which can be argued to be found among the precepts of the natural law). Pope Leo XIII had much to say on this subject... |
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"It preaches that not only in civil affairs, which is not Our concern here, but also in religion, God has given every individual a wide freedom to embrace and adopt without danger to his salvation whatever sect or opinion appeals to him on the basis of his private judgment. The apostle Paul warns us against the impiety of these madmen" (Pope Leo XII, Ubi Primum, n. 12).
"Likewise, peace is rooted in respect for religious freedom, which is a fundamental and primordial aspect of the freedom of conscience of individuals and of the freedom of peoples. It is important that everywhere in the world every person can belong to the religion of his choice and practise it freely without fear" (Pope Benedict XVI, Address to Five New Ambassadors, 18 May 2006).
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Gilgamesh
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omnia exeunt in mysterium
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2010, 11:36:PM » |
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If the concept of the State has its origin in God -- He has been said to be both the Author of men and of societies -- then yes, it could/would be heresy to deny the natural necessity of the State (which can be argued to be found among the precepts of the natural law).
Pope Leo XIII had much to say on this subject...
Being a question of “ if” (italicized, no less), how could it be an objective part of the deposit of faith? I’m not aware of what Leo XIII had to say on the subject. Did he define anything dogmatically? He seems to have had a vision once, in which he overhead Satan & Christ negotiating how much control the prince of this world would be allotted in the Church over the span of a century. Not dogmatic, of course, but it nearly carries that kind of weight in certain “traditionalist” Catholic circles. |
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“Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
a heap of broken images”
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Resurrexi
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2010, 11:42:PM » |
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I voted no—but the question is loaded, because heresy isn’t determined by what individuals “consider a heresy to be.” There would have to be an objective measure established by the Church. What doctrine of the Catholic faith would be contravened or corrupted by having an opinion on the (non)-necessity of the State?
If the concept of the State has its origin in God -- He has been said to be both the Author of men and of societies -- then yes, it could/would be heresy to deny the natural necessity of the State (which can be argued to be found among the precepts of the natural law). Pope Leo XIII had much to say on this subject... All true authority, including that of high school teachers, comes from God. Is it heresy to deny the necessity of high school? |
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Vita brevis breviter in brevi finietur,
Mors venit velociter quae neminem veretur,
Omnia mors perimit et nulli miseretur.
Ad mortem festinamus; peccare desistamus.
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Gilgamesh
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Posts: leet
omnia exeunt in mysterium
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 11:45:PM » |
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Resurrexi leads SouthpawLink in post count by one! This is a close race!  (Apologies to icecream. But I just had to use the smiley). |
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“Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
a heap of broken images”
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SaintSebastian
E chiamamulu paisanu!
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Primu a Diu e Sammastianu!
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2010, 11:51:AM » |
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I think this is a revealed truth, but at the very least it's a doctrine closely connected to revealed truth and held by the Church. A Catholic cannot deny either class of doctrine. I think the best reads on this are Pope Leo XIII's encyclical Diuturnum and St. Robert Bellarmine's work De Laicis, especially chapters 3 through 7. |
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devotedknuckles
the causes go, true rebels remain
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Personality type: incorrigible buffalo
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2010, 12:46:PM » |
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He state is not a revealed truh. Pls show me where it is a revealed truth? Further we have lived without the state actually the state is the unnatural thing in this not the lack of one hence the reson whynit must be imposed and why it uses force to keep it's imposition.
nno where is. It A dogmanwe need a state. We need authority but authority and the state r not the same thing actually most states lack true authority hence the need for mass police oppression in many parts of this world
the state divorced from CHRIST is the coldest of cold monsters not a dogma of the faith
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This is the journey
from which, for me there shall be no return
wholly drenched
is the pine tree of tears
-Yoshida Shoin
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dymphna17
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2010, 01:10:PM » |
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What is the Catholic (universal) definition of "State"?
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I adore Thee O Christ, and I bless Thee, because by Thy holy cross, Thou hast redeemed the world!
Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, save souls!
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