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QuisUtDeus
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« Reply #460 on: December 31, 2010, 11:23:AM » |
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I suspect God would rather we use our knowledge to correct the errors and help save souls - not score cheap flame war points in a chatroom.
I suspect God would not want us to prevaricate on Scripture and ignore the words of the Apostles. If we have to shade the truth to get our way, either we're doing something wrong or we don't deserve our way. |
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Ockham
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« Reply #461 on: December 31, 2010, 11:58:AM » |
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It is not up to us to determine how and where to interpret Scripture. That's the Church's job and right now the Church allows women to speak in church.
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"Our pilgrimage on earth cannot be exempt from trial. We progress by means of trial. No one knows himself except through trial, or receives a crown except after victory, or strives except against an enemy or temptations." St. Augustine
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JMartyr
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« Reply #462 on: December 31, 2010, 12:26:PM » |
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It is not up to us to determine how and where to interpret Scripture. That's the Church's job and right now the Church allows women to speak in church.
We can just disregard the 1900 + years of Church practice. |
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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SouthpawLink
PedisaustralisNexus
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« Reply #463 on: December 31, 2010, 12:44:PM » |
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It is not up to us to determine how and where to interpret Scripture. That's the Church's job and right now the Church allows women to speak in church.
Up until 1972 or so, the Church -- from the time of St. Paul -- interpreted 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 quite literally, as can be seen by her immemorial practice (and the already-mentioned 1917 Code, unless THK knows otherwise...). So, our interpretation is based upon the Church's own interpretation, which remained unchanged until 1972. Current Canon Law allows only men to be stable lectors and acolytes, while women may do so "by temporary designation" (Can. 230 §1-2). |
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"It preaches that not only in civil affairs, which is not Our concern here, but also in religion, God has given every individual a wide freedom to embrace and adopt without danger to his salvation whatever sect or opinion appeals to him on the basis of his private judgment. The apostle Paul warns us against the impiety of these madmen" (Pope Leo XII, Ubi Primum, n. 12).
"Likewise, peace is rooted in respect for religious freedom, which is a fundamental and primordial aspect of the freedom of conscience of individuals and of the freedom of peoples. It is important that everywhere in the world every person can belong to the religion of his choice and practise it freely without fear" (Pope Benedict XVI, Address to Five New Ambassadors, 18 May 2006).
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QuisUtDeus
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« Reply #464 on: December 31, 2010, 02:06:PM » |
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It is not up to us to determine how and where to interpret Scripture. That's the Church's job and right now the Church allows women to speak in church.
That's not what I mean, and you know it. If you want to be a weasel and distort the discussion, and more importantly what I mean, we can take it up a notch. When the Church did not allow women to speak as lectors, it gave that as the reason, not some bullshit about the "clerical state" like you want to give. You're a fine one to point out rules about Scripture when you think it is "Protestant" to interpret it literally.  Instead of wallowing around in your ignorance about why altar boys exist and using that as an excuse to bullshit your fellow Catholics about the hows and whys of Catholicism so you can get a TLM for yourself, maybe you should read up on the virtues of truth and honesty. You worry about how trads look to others, well, I will tell you this: IMO a snakeoil salesman looks bad to everyone, not just those who are pro-Zionist or Modernist or what-have-you. People don't like being misled. |
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Ockham
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« Reply #465 on: December 31, 2010, 04:10:PM » |
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You're a fine one to point out rules about Scripture when you think it is "Protestant" to interpret it literally. Instead of wallowing around in your ignorance about why altar boys exist and using that as an excuse to bullshit your fellow Catholics about the hows and whys of Catholicism so you can get a TLM for yourself, maybe you should read up on the virtues of truth and honesty. You worry about how trads look to others, well, I will tell you this: IMO a snakeoil salesman looks bad to everyone, not just those who are pro-Zionist or Modernist or what-have-you. People don't like being misled. Nice attitude. My goal is to get rid of lay ministries and restore the TLM, but because I don't automatically resort to the 'rad trad' tactics I'm ignorant, bullshiter, misleading and a snake oil salesman. In your unimprimatured opinion that is. Some of you people don't know who your allies are. Perhaps it's one of the reasons you're "wallowing" in the outskirts, the extremes, sitting on the sidelines watching others fight the battle. |
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"Our pilgrimage on earth cannot be exempt from trial. We progress by means of trial. No one knows himself except through trial, or receives a crown except after victory, or strives except against an enemy or temptations." St. Augustine
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CollegeCatholic
Banned for snarking meanness, disrespect toward the Holy Father, twisting what others say in order to mock them, etc.
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Posts: 8,998
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
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« Reply #466 on: December 31, 2010, 04:11:PM » |
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How do you weasel out of this one, in the interpretation of the passage? Can you defend the Novus Ordo hoop-jumping?
I'm not going to weasel out out anything. I"m interested to see how the "rad trads" can justify their aggression. Well, do you know how the Novus Ordo weasels out of the Word of God? And, what aggression? The fact that traditionalists see something wrong with the Novus Ordo Church arbitrarily changing its teaching to "cushion" its impact among women? The Novus Ordo Church decided to change the Mass to appease Protestants and make them convert. How well did that work? It is not up to us to determine how and where to interpret Scripture. That's the Church's job and right now the Church allows women to speak in church.
As to this: WHY did the Novus Ordo Church change this? What precedent did it have to do this? Why did it do this? Why did it change CENTURIES of practice and teaching? Also, I'd rather take the Word of God over the practice of some churchmen who oversaw the implosion of the Catholic Faith and did nothing to halt it. |
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JayneK
Gold Fish
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« Reply #467 on: December 31, 2010, 06:12:PM » |
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It is not up to us to determine how and where to interpret Scripture. That's the Church's job and right now the Church allows women to speak in church.
Up until 1972 or so, the Church -- from the time of St. Paul -- interpreted 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 quite literally, as can be seen by her immemorial practice (and the already-mentioned 1917 Code, unless THK knows otherwise...). So, our interpretation is based upon the Church's own interpretation, which remained unchanged until 1972. Current Canon Law allows only men to be stable lectors and acolytes, while women may do so "by temporary designation" (Can. 230 §1-2). There were shifts in the interpretation of that verse well before that. At one point, it was understood to disallow women singing in church choirs. (If we take it literally, women should neither do this nor participate in congregational responses.) This was changed around the time that church architecture started including choir lofts at the back. Even though women could sing they were not doing so near the altar. |
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ADORABLE Saviour, consider my many wants, and grant me those graces which Thou knowest I stand in need of to do Thy will in all things.
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QuisUtDeus
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« Reply #468 on: December 31, 2010, 08:40:PM » |
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You're a fine one to point out rules about Scripture when you think it is "Protestant" to interpret it literally. Instead of wallowing around in your ignorance about why altar boys exist and using that as an excuse to bullshit your fellow Catholics about the hows and whys of Catholicism so you can get a TLM for yourself, maybe you should read up on the virtues of truth and honesty. You worry about how trads look to others, well, I will tell you this: IMO a snakeoil salesman looks bad to everyone, not just those who are pro-Zionist or Modernist or what-have-you. People don't like being misled. Nice attitude. My goal is to get rid of lay ministries and restore the TLM, but because I don't automatically resort to the 'rad trad' tactics I'm ignorant, bullshiter, misleading and a snake oil salesman. In your unimprimatured opinion that is. Some of you people don't know who your allies are. Perhaps it's one of the reasons you're "wallowing" in the outskirts, the extremes, sitting on the sidelines watching others fight the battle. Bye Ockham! |
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Texican
Если не я, то кто?
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Déu, força, i honor
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« Reply #469 on: December 31, 2010, 08:44:PM » |
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