Stubborn
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« Reply #450 on: December 30, 2010, 06:08:PM » |
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Newchurch.
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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The_Harlequin_King
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« Reply #451 on: December 30, 2010, 06:55:PM » |
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My contention is to get laity out of the Sanctuary. What would you all prefer? The status quo or a return to tradition? A return to tradition; more specifically, a return to a working model that was busted long before Vatican II was ever thought of. Does anyone really think women ever entered sanctuaries in the Middle Ages, even to clean linens? That they wouldn't have laughed at the notion of teaching nuns? Give them an inch, they take a mile. Get rid of 'em. I'm reposting my previous post until people pay attention to the bigger picture: Now let's take this further: no women in the sanctuary anytime after it's consecrated, ever. Have minor orders, or at least men, change the linens or set the flowers. Get rid of women in all Church positions. Replace our old lady secretaries and teaching nuns (especially teaching nuns, for Our Lord's sake) with deacons, subdeacons, clerical oblates, brothers, and so forth. KILL THE MATRIARCHY! Restore the minor orders! |
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Please read and subscribe to my blog: Modern Medievalism. Applying old-world solutions to new-world problems.  Praying for the dead is important. PM me if you need a cantor for the Requiem Mass of a deceased friend or family member. Have cassock and surplice, will travel. (Will also do weddings for a reasonable price.) |
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Ockham
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« Reply #452 on: December 30, 2010, 11:34:PM » |
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Since this little tangent came about by my suggestion that 1Cor14 be kept out of the bigger picture of arguing against laity in the Sanctuary, perhaps all those who are so adamently defending the "no woman may speak in church" position give their personal success stories of convincing Novus Ordo parishes to restore this tradition. If there is a better way to restore things in this manner I'd love to know it. Do tell.
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"Our pilgrimage on earth cannot be exempt from trial. We progress by means of trial. No one knows himself except through trial, or receives a crown except after victory, or strives except against an enemy or temptations." St. Augustine
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CollegeCatholic
Banned for snarking meanness, disrespect toward the Holy Father, twisting what others say in order to mock them, etc.
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Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
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« Reply #453 on: December 31, 2010, 12:47:AM » |
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Since this little tangent came about by my suggestion that 1Cor14 be kept out of the bigger picture of arguing against laity in the Sanctuary, perhaps all those who are so adamently defending the "no woman may speak in church" position give their personal success stories of convincing Novus Ordo parishes to restore this tradition. If there is a better way to restore things in this manner I'd love to know it. Do tell.
Novus Ordo parishes are a contradiction in themselves, and they are run by egotistical, power-hungry laypeople. How do you weasel out of this one, in the interpretation of the passage? Can you defend the Novus Ordo hoop-jumping? |
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The_Harlequin_King
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« Reply #454 on: December 31, 2010, 12:54:AM » |
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There may be no success stories. As laymen, we can't do anything except suggest this or that and hope the people in charge are listening. But pastors of parishes (Novus Ordo or Tridentine, it doesn't matter) may certainly organize things as they see fit. That includes having no female altar servers, lectors, catechists or anything.
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Please read and subscribe to my blog: Modern Medievalism. Applying old-world solutions to new-world problems. Praying for the dead is important. PM me if you need a cantor for the Requiem Mass of a deceased friend or family member. Have cassock and surplice, will travel. (Will also do weddings for a reasonable price.) |
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Ockham
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« Reply #455 on: December 31, 2010, 09:28:AM » |
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How do you weasel out of this one, in the interpretation of the passage? Can you defend the Novus Ordo hoop-jumping?
I'm not going to weasel out out anything. I"m interested to see how the "rad trads" can justify their aggression. |
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"Our pilgrimage on earth cannot be exempt from trial. We progress by means of trial. No one knows himself except through trial, or receives a crown except after victory, or strives except against an enemy or temptations." St. Augustine
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devotedknuckles
the causes go, true rebels remain
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« Reply #456 on: December 31, 2010, 09:31:AM » |
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Maybe Ockham could post his Succsess In ignoring parts of scripture to score petty points
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This is the journey
from which, for me there shall be no return
wholly drenched
is the pine tree of tears
-Yoshida Shoin
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Ockham
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« Reply #457 on: December 31, 2010, 09:37:AM » |
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There may be no success stories. As laymen, we can't do anything except suggest this or that and hope the people in charge are listening. But pastors of parishes (Novus Ordo or Tridentine, it doesn't matter) may certainly organize things as they see fit. That includes having no female altar servers, lectors, catechists or anything.
I'm with you for the most part. My intention is to suggest we suggest in a more receptive manner. It's about the effectiveness of persuasion and keeping the proper perspective. Tradition can stand on its own; it doesn't need the blunt force some here take pleasure in. Once again, our goal should be to end the artifical lay ministries invented in the 'spirit of V2'. The fact that 1Cor14 says women aren't allowed to speak in church is a moot point and easily used against the primary intention. I suspect God would rather we use our knowledge to correct the errors and help save souls - not score cheap flame war points in a chatroom. What do you mean by no women catechists? |
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"Our pilgrimage on earth cannot be exempt from trial. We progress by means of trial. No one knows himself except through trial, or receives a crown except after victory, or strives except against an enemy or temptations." St. Augustine
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QuisUtDeus
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« Reply #458 on: December 31, 2010, 11:18:AM » |
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How do you weasel out of this one, in the interpretation of the passage? Can you defend the Novus Ordo hoop-jumping?
I'm not going to weasel out out anything. I"m interested to see how the "rad trads" can justify their aggression. So people who don't want to dumb-down Scripture to get a Mass for themselves are "rad trads"? Hmm. OK. |
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QuisUtDeus
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« Reply #459 on: December 31, 2010, 11:21:AM » |
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Because women aren't -- and cannot be -- elected to the minor orders, one of which is that of lector. Nor can they become deacons, so they wouldn't be permitted to give the server's response nor read the day's epistle or gospel.
Outstanding. So when a married guy walks out of the congregation to give the First Reading, some women will ask, "Hey, why not me?" What then? You can: Refer to (the old) Canon Law Refer to Scripture That's why, and that's the truth. If they don't like it, well, too bad. Your scenario is no different than a married guy walking out of the congregation and blessing a Crucifix. You know, a permanent deacon. |
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