UnamSanctam
"I believe, O Lord. Help my unbelief."
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« Reply #80 on: April 04, 2011, 04:53:PM » |
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I am sophomoric on philosophy. From what I understand, Augustine is more Platonic, and closer to my beliefs. I read some of his writings on predestination, and they conformed more to my beliefs than St. Thomas.
Lent is here. See you on the flip side.
Augustine is more Platonic, Thomas is a Aristotelian. Though, their views are hardly different. Thomas pretty much just expands and confirms the teachings of Augustine throughout the Summa. I don't notice any major differences between the two. |
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"Everything that is not eternal, is nothing"
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catholicSD
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« Reply #81 on: April 05, 2011, 04:46:PM » |
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I believe that God is all knowing but he give's us free will to make our own choices.
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randomtradguy
A Naomh Seosamh, guí orainn.
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« Reply #82 on: April 05, 2011, 07:12:PM » |
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I believe that God is all knowing but he give's us free will to make our own choices.
But apparently, somehow, you may or may not be predestined to heaven. Nobody here knows what's going on and it's tearing at my brain. |
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #83 on: April 06, 2011, 09:33:AM » |
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I believe that God is all knowing but he give's us free will to make our own choices.
But apparently, somehow, you may or may not be predestined to heaven. Nobody here knows what's going on and it's tearing at my brain. Read the texts I quoted about this matter, the last of which were St. Thomas'. There's no reason for the dogma of predestination to be "tearing" at your brain. |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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randomtradguy
A Naomh Seosamh, guí orainn.
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« Reply #84 on: April 06, 2011, 11:37:AM » |
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I think I'm just stupid. Some things interest me and I get them. Some confuse me and I can't understand them. I'll study this further; but I have college to study as well. I shall say that if there is a distinctive church teaching on the matter, why are the Molinists and Augustinians disagreeing? (or whoever is disagreeing.)
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Christus Imperat
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« Reply #85 on: April 06, 2011, 03:46:PM » |
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I think I'm just stupid. Some things interest me and I get them. Some confuse me and I can't understand them. I'll study this further; but I have college to study as well. I shall say that if there is a distinctive church teaching on the matter, why are the Molinists and Augustinians disagreeing? (or whoever is disagreeing.)
In simple terms, Catholics are bound to believe 1) God is omniscient (which includes knowledge of exactly who will be saved or damned), 2) God may freely bestow His gifts of grace on whom He will, (2a) God is not an indiscriminate grace dispenser--He loves some people more than others and gives some people more grace than other people, 3) Human beings have free will and are ultimately responsible for their eternal salvation or damnation. Thomists and Molinists have differing explanations for how the above are possible. The ordering I gave is basically Thomist, because Thomists refer the issue to God's knowledge and will first, then consider human wills secondarily. Molinists seem to start from the position of human free will and then try to explain God's knowledge and will afterwards. |
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The greatest of all misfortunes is never to have known Jesus Christ: yet such a state is free from the sin of obstinancy and ingratitude. But first to have known Him, and afterwards to deny or forget Him, is a crime so foul and so insane that it seems impossible for any man to be guilty of it. For Christ is the fountain-head of all good. --- Leo XIII, Tametsi
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Christus Imperat
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« Reply #86 on: April 06, 2011, 03:50:PM » |
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Case study--The Blessed Virgin Mary.
God loves her far more than he loves you or me. He predestined her to be the mother of His Son. He gave her the gift of the Immaculate Conception prior to any merit of hers or act of will, He bestowed upon her graces that He will never bestow on anyone else and privileged her above all other creatures.
Furthermore, He willed all of this efficaciously, i.e. it was never in question whether the Virgin would say "fiat" to God's plan.
Nonetheless, the Blessed Mother did say "fiat" of her own will and is worthy of our utmost praise.
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The greatest of all misfortunes is never to have known Jesus Christ: yet such a state is free from the sin of obstinancy and ingratitude. But first to have known Him, and afterwards to deny or forget Him, is a crime so foul and so insane that it seems impossible for any man to be guilty of it. For Christ is the fountain-head of all good. --- Leo XIII, Tametsi
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randomtradguy
A Naomh Seosamh, guí orainn.
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« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2011, 11:33:PM » |
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So does God love some people more than others?
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2011, 09:32:AM » |
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So does God love some people more than others?
Of course. |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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twinc
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« Reply #89 on: April 08, 2011, 03:21:PM » |
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Here let us pause and seriously consider Rmns.9:13-33 - twinc
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