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Author Topic: How Important is Companionship Between Wife and Husband?  (Read 11641 times)
Vetus Ordo
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Gender: Male
Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 18,050



« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2011, 07:25:PM »

VO, I wouldn't need to do it if there wasn't a double standard among trads for how they treat men as opposed to women. See how uncomfortable everyone gets when I point it out?

I don't get uncomfortable when I read your perfomances as feminarum advocata. Your interventions usually spice up the discussions and get them going.

Overall I think it's rather sweet, although a bit misguided now and then.
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)

"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome

"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
James02
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Gender: Male
Posts: 6,935



« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2011, 07:26:PM »

Quote
Exactly. There is a double standard.  

Yeah, with you.  Here no one blamed Grace.  Well, maybe UD suggested she should learn to do some things outdoors.  I imagine that was done in the spirit of offering helpful advise though.

And no one blamed the husband, except you.  We aren't playing the blame game here.  Some of us have been gingerly pointing out that the husband needs to switch back into couple/dating mode, and that she should discuss this with him lovingly.

In the other post, there is no double standard.  And I hate rubbing his nose in it, but I called him out for the problems he was responsible for.  Remember, in the beginning he was going to leave the headaches behind and head overseas.  But he took responsibility for his actions and is now trying to be active in his kids lives.  Very honorable, and shows he is taking responsibility.
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"God's Wrath is Glorious, and I have a front row seat"

"We can not guarantee success.  We can only deserve it."

"And who do you say that I Am?"
"That one simple question, whether Jesus of Nazareth was God Incarnate, becomes increasingly decisive between people, as history moves forward. .... The answer to this question cuts into human ties and seems to reflect even on the nature of inanimate things.  What if:  all that is folly in the eyes of the Greeks, and scandal in the eyes of the Jews, ... is Truth?"

And there was no doubt about it -- towards Him we had been running, or from Him we had been running away, but all the time He had been in the center of things.
James02
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Gender: Male
Posts: 6,935



« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2011, 07:40:PM »

Commenting on him taking the kids out skiing:
Quote
He likes camping. This is hardly a selfless act.

Followed by:
Quote

No, but neither has he, apparently.

JayneK, DON'T. 

Your head will explode.

This thread is now a bunch of bickering.  I'm gone. 
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"God's Wrath is Glorious, and I have a front row seat"

"We can not guarantee success.  We can only deserve it."

"And who do you say that I Am?"
"That one simple question, whether Jesus of Nazareth was God Incarnate, becomes increasingly decisive between people, as history moves forward. .... The answer to this question cuts into human ties and seems to reflect even on the nature of inanimate things.  What if:  all that is folly in the eyes of the Greeks, and scandal in the eyes of the Jews, ... is Truth?"

And there was no doubt about it -- towards Him we had been running, or from Him we had been running away, but all the time He had been in the center of things.
Underdog
Trad with a twang
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Gender: Female
Location: The Greatest Country on Earth: TEXAS!
Posts: 4,801


Living the Spoiled Life


« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2011, 07:41:PM »

*Lots of Iolanthe quotes*

It could be because Grace isn't in the middle of a divorce/custody proceeding.  In my observation, both sides in a nasty divorce tend to excoriate the other spouse to a degree or more beyond truth...hard feelings take time to mellow...and the start of a divorce is likely to be a time of enmity.  Grace is a lonely spouse seeking advice on how to improve her marriage; TradDad is a rankled spouse seeking advice on how to manage his divorce/custody proceeding.  We may take Grace at her word...since she is not criticizing her husband so much as seeking a way to improve her relationship with him.  We may or may not take TradDad at his word...not because he may be a dishonest guy...but because he is likely to still be very hurt and resentful toward his wife.  Certainly, if you have ever witnessed a friend go through a divorce you will know that for a time (at least) he or she was especially critical of the other spouse.  It's sorta like the grieving period after a death...it just takes time...till that hurt diminishes...before the situation can be dealt with in an objective manner.  Till then, raw emotions sometimes cause people to be overly harsh and judgmental (not that that is definitely what is happening in TradDad's case, but I, myself, prefer to take the early complaints in a divorce with a shaker of salt).




NB: Just to make it clear...if I were a friend of TradDad's wife...since they are in the middle of a nasty break up...I would lend an ear to her venting about him...but I would take her criticisms and complaints with a shaker of salt, too.  So this is nothing against TD because he's a dude.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 07:50:PM by Underdog » Logged

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Walty
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Gender: Male
Posts: 14,539



« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2011, 08:05:PM »

IoIanthe,

I found these quotes from traddad's thread, which you mentioned.

Quote from: IoIanthe
Everyone is assuming that she is a manipulative liar and that he is telling the absolute truth about her.

Quote from: IoIanthe
So the wife is the wife a liar and the husband not even exaggerating a little? Of course none of us have any idea what the truth is...but people see what they want and try to shush the people who point out unpleasant possibilities that they would rather not hear.

Quote from: IoIanthe
The possibility that he might be exaggerating the problem.

Then, from this thread:

Quote from: IoIanthe
I see no reason to question what Grace wrote, and what she wrote describes her husband acting very selfish. If she's lying about it, that's on her conscience, but I'm not going to assume that she is.


Huh?



Exactly. There is a double standard. Thanks for making it so evident.

In other words, no one has trouble playing the blame game when it comes to traddad's wife. It's perfectly fine to heap abuse on her. But even suggest that a man who won't take his wife out to dinner once in a while is selfish and people react like something terrible has happened.

VO, I wouldn't need to do it if there wasn't a double standard among trads for how they treat men as opposed to women. See how uncomfortable everyone gets when I point it out?

Walty, do you really not think it's selfish for a man to refuse to take his wife out once in a while?

You are the one perpetuating the double standard that you are always complaining about!    I mean, what?  Is this a serious response?
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Quote from: Rev. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P.
The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes;
she is tolerant in practice because she loves.
The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe;
 they are intolerant in practice because they do not love.

Timorem Domini docebo vos.


Iolanthe
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Gender: Female
Personality type: broken record
Posts: 5,220


"If one can't be happy one must be amused"


« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2011, 03:29:AM »

You are the one perpetuating the double standard that you are always complaining about!    I mean, what?  Is this a serious response?

A response to  Huh? which was what you wrote? What am I supposed to respond to? Do you know what your point is?

You're the one who chose to come out of hiding and get outraged because I called some guy selfish. Then you complained about how men on sitcoms are sometimes fat and portrayed as inept. If you think either of these shows some kind of persecution then you have proven my point that you live in a bubble.
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"Tenthly, one should pour tea into the cup first. This is one of the most controversial points of all; indeed in every family in Britain there are probably two schools of thought on the subject. The milk-first school can bring forward some fairly strong arguments, but I maintain that my own argument is unanswerable. This is that, by putting the tea in first and stirring as one pours, one can exactly regulate the amount of milk, whereas one is liable to put in too much milk if one does it the other way round."
George Orwell
Iolanthe
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Gender: Female
Personality type: broken record
Posts: 5,220


"If one can't be happy one must be amused"


« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2011, 03:36:AM »

Quote
Exactly. There is a double standard.  

Yeah, with you.  Here no one blamed Grace.  Well, maybe UD suggested she should learn to do some things outdoors.  I imagine that was done in the spirit of offering helpful advise though.

And no one blamed the husband, except you.  We aren't playing the blame game here.  Some of us have been gingerly pointing out that the husband needs to switch back into couple/dating mode, and that she should discuss this with him lovingly.

In the other post, there is no double standard.  And I hate rubbing his nose in it, but I called him out for the problems he was responsible for.  Remember, in the beginning he was going to leave the headaches behind and head overseas.  But he took responsibility for his actions and is now trying to be active in his kids lives.  Very honorable, and shows he is taking responsibility.

This is how you described traddad's wife most recently:

TradDad has described a neurotic loon for an ex-wife who runs around like an adolescent with her mother-in-law, and stuffs herself with food...

However, these kind of narcissistic women follow a pattern....

...this horrible woman who can't be bothered to keep her kids clean.

All I did was call the OP's husband selfish, and everyone flipped out. Using the kind of language you used if perfectly acceptable, though. There is the double standard. And Walty admitted that he only cared about what I said because it involved a guy. If he had been offended by what you wrote about a women you don't even know, then I might be less inclined to believe in the double standard. But he didn't.

Do you see it now?
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"Tenthly, one should pour tea into the cup first. This is one of the most controversial points of all; indeed in every family in Britain there are probably two schools of thought on the subject. The milk-first school can bring forward some fairly strong arguments, but I maintain that my own argument is unanswerable. This is that, by putting the tea in first and stirring as one pours, one can exactly regulate the amount of milk, whereas one is liable to put in too much milk if one does it the other way round."
George Orwell
Iolanthe
Member

Gender: Female
Personality type: broken record
Posts: 5,220


"If one can't be happy one must be amused"


« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2011, 04:51:AM »

Commenting on him taking the kids out skiing:
Quote
He likes camping. This is hardly a selfless act.

Followed by:
Quote

No, but neither has he, apparently.

JayneK, DON'T. 

Your head will explode.

This thread is now a bunch of bickering.  I'm gone. 


How is it bickering? You said a man who takes his kids camping is not selfish. If you read the thread, you will see that he only does the things he likes, which includes camping. He doesn't do things he doesn't like--like spending time with his wife doing things that she likes. It sound like he does what he wants and those who are willing to participate are allowed to go along with him. Everyone else is screwed.

Yeah, that's selfish. There is simply no other way to describe it.
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"Tenthly, one should pour tea into the cup first. This is one of the most controversial points of all; indeed in every family in Britain there are probably two schools of thought on the subject. The milk-first school can bring forward some fairly strong arguments, but I maintain that my own argument is unanswerable. This is that, by putting the tea in first and stirring as one pours, one can exactly regulate the amount of milk, whereas one is liable to put in too much milk if one does it the other way round."
George Orwell
Joseph11
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Gender: Male
Personality type: INFP
Posts: 1,078


I would like to know why.


« Reply #58 on: March 01, 2011, 08:30:AM »

Yeah, that's selfish. There is simply no other way to describe it.

I think the criticism is just that you should not have said so explicitly that it was because you could poison the OP's mind against her husband, and it's not your place to be passing judgments on people's spouses based on descriptions of their marriages that they post on this forum.  There are more constructive ways of giving advice than passing such a sweeping, point-blank judgment on a person.

I think that's all Walty was originally trying to say.

JayneK's is right.  The OP and her husband need prayer, and they need to talk to one another or someone who has experience helping people in this way.

What she really needs to do immediately, I think, is tell her husband how she feels.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 08:38:AM by Incarnatur » Logged
Jacafamala
My mother, my confidence.
Gold Fish
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Personality type: Auntie Mama
Posts: 9,163


Discorso della luna.


WWW
« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2011, 08:49:AM »

Well, married people can always share:

A. A good meal and conversation.
B. The marriage bed.*


* (Sayz Dr. Rooth)



God put them there for a good reason, so we can be happy.

But I agree with Jayne. If you really hate camping, then don't go camping. Try to find other things that you can enjoy together. And let him go off sometimes with his buddies, so long as that doesn't lead him into sin. He'll be happier, and if he's happy, life will be better for you, too. 21 years is a long time, I know. People change, you'll both keep changing. It's the way of it.  Smile
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 09:02:AM by Jacafamala » Logged


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Above all things, preserve constant charity among yourselves; charity draws the veil over a multitude of sins. -1 Peter
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