CanadianCatholic
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Location: CaNaDa
Personality type: CrAzY
Posts: 5,579
Kickin @$$ and takin names
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« Reply #100 on: March 25, 2011, 12:05:AM » |
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It is just like the modesty/pants argument. No one will agree on a bare minimum of requirements because they consider it their right to do X.
Indeed. "How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that commeth from God only?" (John 5:44) The House of the Lord is the most sacred place on the face of the earth. One cannot fathom the incredible privilege that it is to be able to be in His presence whenever one enters a Church. The old Israelites could only dream of such an opportunity. How miserable we are! haha! yeah...Gods natural design of a mother to nourish her child is miserable, isnt it? |
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Walty
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« Reply #101 on: March 25, 2011, 12:05:AM » |
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Lol. That was a serious question, Libby. I'm a 23 year old idiot. What do I know about breastfeeding? |
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The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes;
she is tolerant in practice because she loves.
The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe;
they are intolerant in practice because they do not love. Timorem Domini docebo vos. |
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CollegeCatholic
Banned for snarking meanness, disrespect toward the Holy Father, twisting what others say in order to mock them, etc.
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Location: Terre Haute, IN
Personality type: ISTJ
Posts: 8,998
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
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« Reply #102 on: March 25, 2011, 12:06:AM » |
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You sang happy birthday in church? Outside? In the parish hall? If so, in church, well, that's inappropriate. The focus in the Church ought to be on God.
They (large families) shouldn't feel at home until they get to Heaven. And they should feel as guests in God's house. We should focus on God, not how comfortable we are or how easy it is to do X.
I'm not used to this sort of talk from you, CC... I think this thread has probably fell off the point of no return if you're saying stuff like this. Dude, you're a single guy... family life is tough. Real challenging. So in that sense, "comfort" is a very relative term. My son's mother had you know nipple infections and all that... so breastfeeding isn't "easy" - it's an art and a science. We want people to be at mass, after all. Yeah the happy birthday was in the parish hall in the church basement after mass. Anyhoo, my point was that our priest has a warm, big heart for families... and we have big families... and they behave with real respect whilst in church for the very most part... so I'd rather maybe a little breastfeeding here and there (which I'd rarely notice anyways) then coming down too hard on families and causing issues unnecessarily. I have no doubt family life is tough. But life is going to be tough for everyone, be it priest or laity, sinner or saint. That's the deal, due to the Fall. Churches should be welcoming, but we should keep our focus on God and conducting ourselves with proper behavior. No one finds it odd that we would respect the house of someone we are visiting, or being quiet and respectful if visiting a superior (maybe it's just me?), so why not so for the Creator of the Universe? No doubt families are great and important. And, no, we shouldn't be coming down hard on families. My fun story is in Germany, some crank put a sign up on the church door saying children should be left at home so as to make the church quiet and not have distractions. I told my friends, they told the priest (being native Germans... they knew how to speak better, ha!), and the priest, before his homily for the day, said children of COURSE are welcome, it's a great thing, and no one should put signs on the door. As I said in my first post on this thread, I think it *could* possibly be done if done discreetly. If there is an issue, then it would be better done elsewhere. But, I've taken a bit of Devil's Advocate and I haven't seen anyone make a decent argument, aside from "well, God made babies that way, so it's OK." Not a good argument. We've had a lot of appeals to emotion, a lot of sidetracking the issue, and a lot of ad hominems, but no argument put forth. If someone could suitably answer Walty's questions, then we'd be getting somewhere. I doubt that'll happen though. |
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CanadianCatholic
Member
Gender:
Location: CaNaDa
Personality type: CrAzY
Posts: 5,579
Kickin @$$ and takin names
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« Reply #103 on: March 25, 2011, 12:07:AM » |
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Lol. That was a serious question, Libby. I'm a 23 year old idiot. What do I know about breastfeeding? apparently no more than most of the guys on this thread. the nursing covers cover everything....no skin exposed |
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Vetus Ordo
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Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 18,069
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« Reply #104 on: March 25, 2011, 12:08:AM » |
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As entranced as they would be, theres no ignoring a starving baby crying and rooting at their mother for nourishment. Its motherly instinct to deal with it, no matter what is going on around us. God designed us that way. Are you trying to argue that those privileged Jewish mothers would breastfeed their children inside the Holy of Holies? Animals are slaves to their instincts, humans are not. This is simply not possible. Unlike the lax times we live in, our forefathers had not lost the sense of the sacred we so miserably seem to have. Absolutely yes i am....ever tried to concentrate when a screaming baby is pulling at your shirt? Babies are in no more control of their instincts than animals. When they need to feed, they need to feed NOW. God made them that way. So the baby's needs trump the reverence owed to be standing on sacred ground in the presence of the Lord of Lords? What ever happened to the first commandment? I venture to say that the Jewish mothers in question would rather die than disrupt such a sacred occasion. They would flee away from the Holy of Holies before ever trying to feed (or breastfeed) their children before the majestic presence of the Lord. |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Walty
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Posts: 14,502
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« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2011, 12:09:AM » |
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Lol. That was a serious question, Libby. I'm a 23 year old idiot. What do I know about breastfeeding? apparently no more than most of the guys on this thread. the nursing covers cover everything....no skin exposed Alright. Fair enough. So then it's pretty reasonable to expect that a breastfeeding mom could go her entire life without accidentally exposing herself at Mass? |
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The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes;
she is tolerant in practice because she loves.
The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe;
they are intolerant in practice because they do not love. Timorem Domini docebo vos. |
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Vetus Ordo
Member
Gender:
Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 18,069
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« Reply #106 on: March 25, 2011, 12:10:AM » |
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It is just like the modesty/pants argument. No one will agree on a bare minimum of requirements because they consider it their right to do X.
Indeed. "How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that commeth from God only?" (John 5:44) The House of the Lord is the most sacred place on the face of the earth. One cannot fathom the incredible privilege that it is to be able to be in His presence whenever one enters a Church. The old Israelites could only dream of such an opportunity. How miserable we are! haha! yeah...Gods natural design of a mother to nourish her child is miserable, isnt it? You utterly missed the point...again. |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Bakuryokuso
Eh
Member
Gender:
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 5,935
The gentleman in question
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« Reply #107 on: March 25, 2011, 12:11:AM » |
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Walty's queries...
1. Absolutely there is a reasonable guarantee that breastfeeding won't leave the mother exposed during mass. Moms are masters at this... in the first months you're basically breastfeeding, changing diapers and sleeping... once you get to mass you've got the hang of it, especially after multiple kids. The way women dress at the NO is a million times more problematic
2. The onus is on Walty to demonstrate why this would be inappropriate, not the other way around. He'd have to prove that it would create some sort of scandal. You can prove that with, I dunno, cleavage and tight pants but with a kid quietly breastfeeding under a shawl or however it's arranged. Tell us what the problem is.
I mean, if we assume everything "unsightly" is improper then: no coughing, no sneezing, no farting during mass...
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"I suppose the greatest reform of our time was that carried out by St Pius X: surpassing anything, however needed, that the Council will achieve." -- JRR Tolkien, letter to his son Michael, 1 November 1963
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CollegeCatholic
Banned for snarking meanness, disrespect toward the Holy Father, twisting what others say in order to mock them, etc.
Member
Gender:
Location: Terre Haute, IN
Personality type: ISTJ
Posts: 8,998
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
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« Reply #108 on: March 25, 2011, 12:11:AM » |
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It is just like the modesty/pants argument. No one will agree on a bare minimum of requirements because they consider it their right to do X.
Indeed. "How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that commeth from God only?" (John 5:44) The House of the Lord is the most sacred place on the face of the earth. One cannot fathom the incredible privilege that it is to be able to be in His presence whenever one enters a Church. The old Israelites could only dream of such an opportunity. How miserable we are! haha! yeah...Gods natural design of a mother to nourish her child is miserable, isnt it? You utterly missed the point...again. Again, it's God's natural design for man to urinate and release waste. Either I'm crazy, this argument doesn't apply, or I'm not being addressed. |
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CanadianCatholic
Member
Gender:
Location: CaNaDa
Personality type: CrAzY
Posts: 5,579
Kickin @$$ and takin names
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« Reply #109 on: March 25, 2011, 12:11:AM » |
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Lol. That was a serious question, Libby. I'm a 23 year old idiot. What do I know about breastfeeding? apparently no more than most of the guys on this thread. the nursing covers cover everything....no skin exposed Alright. Fair enough. So then it's pretty reasonable to expect that a breastfeeding mom could go her entire life without accidentally exposing herself at Mass? 4 children breastfed later, i have not...and i have personally never seen it it. And you know my family size... |
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