Author Topic: 12 year olds and sexuality  (Read 2154 times)

Mithrandylan

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Re: 12 year olds and sexuality
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 09:56:AM »
Quote
I'm not sure what kind of God you believe in Rosarium, but mine doesn't send 12 year old boys to hell for masturbating.

If he has full knowledge and intent, yes.  If one of those is lacking (likely the former as it is difficult to masturbate accidently) then the sin is not mortal and possibly culpability is completely gone depending on the situation.  I don't think its been made clear whether or not the boy has been taught so- and because of this it may be a little early in the thread to be making Heaven and Hell assertions.

love alabama

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Re: 12 year olds and sexuality
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 10:48:AM »
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I'm not sure what kind of God you believe in Rosarium, but mine doesn't send 12 year old boys to hell for masturbating.

If he has full knowledge and intent, yes.  If one of those is lacking (likely the former as it is difficult to masturbate accidently) then the sin is not mortal and possibly culpability is completely gone depending on the situation.  I don't think its been made clear whether or not the boy has been taught so- and because of this it may be a little early in the thread to be making Heaven and Hell assertions.


If he did have full intent then he would go to hell right? I believe that this is a serious matter and should not be taken lightly. Am I right?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 10:50:AM by love alabama »

orate

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Re: 12 year olds and sexuality
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 11:26:AM »


Guilt cannot be imputed to someone who is not aware that the act is gravely sinful. If he was given proper instruction then, considering that he contradicted his father, it probably hasn't made much of an impression. Because he has been told masturbation is wrong does not necessarily mean he knows and believes this to be so. He's a kid so he probably doesn't even think about this stuff.

I'm not sure what kind of God you believe in Rosarium, but mine doesn't send 12 year old boys to hell for masturbating.

Aragon  I usually do not join in on these kinds of discussions because of their heated nature.  But I feel compelled to add something.

Awhile after me "reversion," if you will, God gave me the grace to realize that there is a big difference between knowing something is a sin and believing something is a sin.  I had been taught what was right and what was wrong, I just refused to believe certain things were wrong due to the liberal environment  around me.  At one point, all those sins that I knew were wrong but refused to believe were wrong came flooding back to me and I was abhorred at their gravity.  Needless to say I headed ASAP to Confession.  My wonderful Confessor said, "Isn't God wonderful that he gives us time before these realizations overtake us so as not to discourage us when we are just returning to Him."

My point is, the son in the OP knows his actions are wrong.  He is above the Age of Reason and his father has instructed him.  The son is being obstinate in his unbelief.

Suppose the situation was changed.  Suppose the son is standing on the railroad tracks and a train is barreling toward him.  The Dad says get off the tracks or you will be killed.  The son now knows he will be killed, but says, I don't believe it, so I think I'll just stay where I am.  When the train hits he will be dead whether he believed it or not.

So,if the son in the OP continues in his sin, he is culpable as his father has instructed him that it is serious matter and he does, indeed , know, whether he believes or not.

Now I am not God and cannot judge an individual soul.  But the Dad in the OP and I both know that God is all just as well as all merciful.  And it is better to spend this life making reparation to His justice so that God will be merciful to us at our judgment.

Just as a good father would make every attempt to remove his son from the train tracks before the son suffers from the consequences of his non-belief, the OP Dad wishes to make sure his son does not suffer the supernatural consequences of his un-belief.

The only advice to that dad that I can offer over and above what has already been said, is to pray constantly for one's children.  I'm sure it was my mother's prayers for me that I think will eventually aid in my salvation.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 11:31:AM by orate »

The_Harlequin_King

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Re: 12 year olds and sexuality
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2011, 12:50:PM »
Cut off a finger every time he gets caught. Or buy a chastity belt.
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Re: 12 year olds and sexuality
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2011, 01:54:PM »
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I'm not sure what kind of God you believe in Rosarium, but mine doesn't send 12 year old boys to hell for masturbating.

If he has full knowledge and intent, yes.  If one of those is lacking (likely the former as it is difficult to masturbate accidently) then the sin is not mortal and possibly culpability is completely gone depending on the situation.  I don't think its been made clear whether or not the boy has been taught so- and because of this it may be a little early in the thread to be making Heaven and Hell assertions.


If he did have full intent then he would go to hell right? I believe that this is a serious matter and should not be taken lightly. Am I right?

If he knows it's a sin and does it anyhow, he needs to repent and go to Confession because he is at risk of going to hell.   Only Christ determines who goes to hell, but the criteria is mortal sin.


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Re: 12 year olds and sexuality
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2011, 02:48:PM »
Cut off a finger every time he gets caught. Or buy a chastity belt.

this is EXACTLY what I will do for my kids!  :laughing:

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Re: 12 year olds and sexuality
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2011, 03:34:PM »
I think the father made a blunder.  Why on earth would he approach it purely as a moral issue ("you're doing something sinful and if you keep doing you're gonna go to hell!")...if he knows that his son's conscience has not been properly formed?  That's just stupid.

He is a kid...above the age of reason...but not the same as being an adult.  He is still within the second set of 7 years...which we know to be that time in which children begin to develop their ability to use the ability to reason that has been given to them.  They are not the same as children below the age of 7, and not the same as men and women above the age of 14.  Men develop their reason...over time.

The father is clearly culpable...more so than the son at this age...for 2 reasons.  1) He was given the responsibility by God to form the conscience of his child...which he clearly has failed to do, and 2) he undermines his own authority by allowing his child unbridled access to the internet.  The father has known all along that his son would begin to hit puberty at some point...and he failed to impart the information that his son would need in order to resist temptation and sin.

If I were to find my son, at 12, masturbating...I wouldn't just get on my high horse and start preaching about how what he's doing is wrong and how if he keeps doing it he's gonna go to hell.  I'd empathize...let him know that God means for certain sensations to be pleasurable...but that they are ordered to an end.  I'd let him know that his body is giving him signals that he is about to make the transition from boyhood to manhood, and that he is being called to prepare for the responsibilities of manhood.  We would talk about what it means to be a man...discuss what makes a man good (virtue)...and come up with a plan for him to learn the things he will need to know in order to be a good man (how to acquire virtue and the skills that adults need).  I would also impart to him some measures he may use to counteract his urge to masturbate...becoming more active outdoors...perhaps learning a sport...exercising...picking up a new hobby...anything to keep his mind and his hands busy elsewhere.  He needs to know how to resist temptation even when his father is not around (teach him to fish...so to speak).  He also needs to know that should he fail...that he is not beyond redemption.  He should be instructed on how to make a nightly examination of conscience (it shouldn't wait until he's 12)...and be given a weekly opportunity to confess.  He does not need his parent to come across as judgmental...he needs a parent who will help him to understand how to handle himself...and temptation...and sin.  And then...I would lock down or get rid of the computer...not just the internet.  (Of course...ideally...it would be his father's place to give him the above info).

That's MHO.  I think the father in the real life scenario...needs to ditch the internet...and begin to cultivate a solid relationship with his son...which he has failed to do so far.
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CanadianCatholic

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Re: 12 year olds and sexuality
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2011, 03:40:PM »
fantastic reply UD

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Re: 12 year olds and sexuality
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2011, 03:51:PM »
Underdog, unless you know a lot more about the situation than has been posted in this thread, I do not think it is at all fair to place all the blame on the father. Should the parents take some blame for their son's actions? Probably, but the kid is twelve years old and it sounds like his parents have put in some effort to make sure that he is properly educated. We should also consider the lack of respect he seems to show toward his father. I think this boy's parents just need to show him some discipline.
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Mithrandylan

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Re: 12 year olds and sexuality
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2011, 04:52:PM »
Quote
I'm not sure what kind of God you believe in Rosarium, but mine doesn't send 12 year old boys to hell for masturbating.

If he has full knowledge and intent, yes.  If one of those is lacking (likely the former as it is difficult to masturbate accidently) then the sin is not mortal and possibly culpability is completely gone depending on the situation.  I don't think its been made clear whether or not the boy has been taught so- and because of this it may be a little early in the thread to be making Heaven and Hell assertions.


If he did have full intent then he would go to hell right? I believe that this is a serious matter and should not be taken lightly. Am I right?

As Quis said, he would be at risk.  I wouldn't worry about discerning whether or not he had full knowledge and intent in this situation, you guys need to take the steps necessary to make him understand that it is wrong and why it is wrong (UD posted well on this topic) now that you know he is at that age.  The green scapular is a great idea.

You're absolutely right, don't take it lightly.  Don't buy into the "its what boys do" and "its natural" excuses that try to besmirch the behavior.  And if your husband says any of  those lines to try to brush this under the rug hit him over the head with a bottle of sam adams (or maybe something cheaper) and remind him that you're responsible for this boys soul.

I will include you in my rosary intentions.

ETA for grammar