UnamSanctam
"I believe, O Lord. Help my unbelief."
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« on: March 31, 2011, 07:34:PM » |
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I am trying to understand further the role and essence of the SSPX. I have no dealings with the Society as of yet, and I really don't have a solid understanding or opinion on the matter. From my understanding, the SSPX is a schismatic group severed from the Catholic Church...
"It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." - Cantate Domino
...and other such writings of the Church declare this truth. I am trying to understand, and would love to be convinced, of validity and salvation to be found in SSPX.
1) How is the SSPX any different from protestant and 'orthodox' churches who declared themselves to be the true Church? 2) Is the SSPX a valid and licit Mass? 3) Is the SSPX sedevacantist? 4) What is SSPX view of FSSP and other such extraordinary form orders 5) Who is in charge (temporally and spiritually) of the SSPX? 6) What is SSPX view on Vatican II?
Now I understand that these questions have likely been asked or answered in some form or another, and will likely merit long answers from respondants, but I would LOVE to see SSPX in a greater light. Thank you.
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"Everything that is not eternal, is nothing"
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Vetus Ordo
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Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 18,069
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2011, 07:54:PM » |
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1) The SSPX is a Catholic Fraternity of priests and bishops. They do not claim to be a separate church or even the Church. They are a faithful renmant of Catholics subject to the Pope and unlike Protestants, the Orthodox and the modernists posing as Catholics, the SSPX does not teach heresy; 2) Yes; 3) No; 4) In principle, the SSPX condemns these groups because of their unmistakable compromises with the conciliar church. In practical terms, though, there is often some cooperation; 5) The current Superior General is Bishop Fellay. Previously it was Fr. Schmidtberger. The founder was Archbishop Lefebvre. 6) A fallible pastoral council that wrought much damage in the Church. I urge to investigate matters further. Take your time, there's lots of material to be read and many of your assumptions will be challenged. Pray to God that He may give you the grace to accept the truth. Go here. Start with the simpler articles and move on from there.
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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QuisUtDeus
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2011, 08:01:PM » |
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I'm in a bad mood so I can't answer right now except to say this: everything you've heard about the SSPX, based on your questions, have been filthy lies. I'm not upset with you for asking, Unam Sanctam; I'm just tired of the SSPX being the whipping boys for the Modernists and the Neo-Catholics. They are good men who suffer much and don't deserve it.
If what Vetus said doesn't help, I'll chime in when I'm in a better mood. If I answer now, it will be really grumpy and mostly unhelpful. Also, I'm sure others will answer.
What is with me today? I'm cranky as heck.
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Vetus Ordo
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Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 18,069
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2011, 08:06:PM » |
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What is with me today? I'm cranky as heck.
It's an opportunity for mortification and spiritual growth.
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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QuisUtDeus
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2011, 09:05:PM » |
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What is with me today? I'm cranky as heck.
It's an opportunity for mortification and spiritual growth. For those around me because they have to put up with me, sure.  One of my Lenten goals was patience. Maybe God is giving me an opportunity to work on that. If so, thank you, Lord. 
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Vetus Ordo
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Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 18,069
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2011, 09:30:PM » |
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What is with me today? I'm cranky as heck.
It's an opportunity for mortification and spiritual growth. For those around me because they have to put up with me, sure.  One of my Lenten goals was patience. Maybe God is giving me an opportunity to work on that. If so, thank you, Lord.  God is ever providing, indeed. If not for your spiritual growth, then for your family's.
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Hawaii Five-0
Banned for snarkiness and because he doesn't like this place anyway
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Location: Lucena City, Quezon, Philippines.
Posts: 2,141
Me and my little pet monkey, his name is Skippy.
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2011, 10:35:PM » |
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I'm in a bad mood so I can't answer right now except to say this: everything you've heard about the SSPX, based on your questions, have been filthy lies. I'm not upset with you for asking, Unam Sanctam; I'm just tired of the SSPX being the whipping boys for the Modernists and the Neo-Catholics. They are good men who suffer much and don't deserve it.
If what Vetus said doesn't help, I'll chime in when I'm in a better mood. If I answer now, it will be really grumpy and mostly unhelpful. Also, I'm sure others will answer.
What is with me today? I'm cranky as heck.
Quis hit the nail on the head! Countless lies are directed at the SSPX and the faithful who receive the sacraments from these brave Catholic priests. I have personal experience on this matter because I was on the receiving end of such lies from many members of the Church Hierarchy. I am one of the "Hawaii Six" who was excommunicated by the Bishop of Honolulu for helping organise a private chapel where we received the sacraments from SSPX priests and many other priests loyal to the traditional Catholic faith including members of SJ, OP, and SSCC, to name a few. The extent of the lies that members of the Hiearchy employed against us is mind numbing. But, in the end justice was done by none other than Cardinal Ratzinger when, as the Perfect of the CDF, he declared the excommunications null and void. Here is link if you want to see the actual documents from the case. http://www.sspx.org/diocesan_dialogues/honolulu_&_hawaii6.htm
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SLCFranciscan
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Personality type: Melancholic
Posts: 333
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2011, 11:59:PM » |
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Hawaii Five-O, I am very familiar with your case, and I want to say that you and your fellow SSPXers are my heroes. Thank you for standing up for the Catholic Faith. You have my appreciation and my prayers. 
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QuisUtDeus
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2011, 02:18:AM » |
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Hey, H50, I didn't know you were one of them. I, too, am familiar with your case and applaud your bravery and tenacity. An ave for you! 
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Benno
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Location: Oz
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2011, 03:05:AM » |
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Good stuff. There's a lot of salvation going on in the sspx. They really are a "remnant" of catholics who love a certain period in Catholic history, with all the good and bad things that that entails. The problem is that they have no authority and build their church largely on sentiment and ignorance. (That's not meant to be as harsh as it sounds - most of us are stuck with sentiment and ignorance down here!)
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