$350 and it's all yours...Baronius Breviarium Romanum

[moneil]

Because an engaged and loyal customer base is such a pain.

I'm sorry but these guys are both 1) wonderful people for breathing new life into quality traditional publications, ans 2) truly awful business people.

Theyre basically saying "We're not capable of truthfully communicating accurate information to the people to whom we owe our success (customers) so we're basically not going to talk to them anymore because they're distracting and annoying."

If a real, established publishing ever house ever decided to carve out a new niche for themselves, they would slay these guys.

Good points.  But I think they've hit that stage in their life cycle when they could really benefit from a professional Chief Operations Officer.  Perhaps, if they're going to the Venture Capital well again, they might consider partnering in an equity deal with someone ( ) who can bring sorely lacking operational expertise (e.g., bringing new products to market, supply chain management, business logistics, customer relations, etc.) to the table.

Enough with this amateur hour "Catholic-publishing-is-my-hobby" nonsense  . Just look at the error-plagued 1st printing of the LOBVM, shipment of humidy damaged products, the utter and complete fiasco that was the Breviary launch (NB: How many "pre-order" listed customers still got stiffed, do you think? hundreds?) - and on and on.

I have seen no evidence that these guys have learned anything.   

<== Baronius Press Senior Management Team

I don’t necessarily disagree with some of Allan’s observations but if I may play Devil’s Advocate for a bit …

I don’t know anything about Baronius except they are small.  Having been a solo proprietorship distributor for a biological product for the livestock industry which include providing technical service, covering 13 counties in eastern WA and northern ID, and not having a wife at home to answer the phone and keep the books, and having other friends who have tried their hand at entrepreneurship, I am a bit sympathetic to situations they may have gotten into.  While the breviary project became something of a marathon there were many who came to predict that it would never happen, BUT IT DID.  I remember the critiques here of their earlier editions of the LOBVM (which I’m thinking was printed in India?).  They see to have imposed a laborious (and time consuming) process of proofing with this project, and sourced a new printer in the Philippines.  For a small shop perhaps operating mostly on a cash flow basis just dealing with that type of out sourcing can be tedious as I well know (I had to delay a few projects until I could pre pay inventory costs).

So yeah, consumers can be frustrated.  On the other hand, having been in a similar situation, (a) if one is asked to bid a proposal and  decides not to the prospect gets mad; (b) if one presents a proposal by request but maybe “bit off more than should have been at the moment” the prospect gets mad ~ a damned if you do, damned if you don’t environment.

  If a real, established publishing ever house ever decided to carve out a new niche for themselves, they would slay these guys.  But, none have and I see no indication that any are looking to.

The bottom line is they are providing products of limited market appeal that nobody else is.  From the initial reports they appear to have addressed the quality issues (and I’m very pleased with their pocket edition of the Douay-Rheims New Testament and Psalms).  One can choose to purchase the products they decide to produce, when they are able to make them available, at the price they ask.  In my opinion the only genuine “right” a customer has, AFTER placing an order and making payment, is to receive a product that is as described in a timely manner.

Customers DON’T necessarily have a “right” to demand a company provide a certain product, or that it be available at a certain time, or that it meet certain criteria, or that it be priced at a certain level.  If they don’t like a company’s offering they are free to a) trade elsewhere; b) start their own company and do a better job; c) do without.

In the 37 pages of this thread, and in other threads, there have been several who surmise that they would know how to do the job better.  YET, none of them have brought a breviary to market, only Baronius has accomplished that.  Credit where credit is due I say.

 

Edited for spelling and formatting

[Parmandur]

Because an engaged and loyal customer base is such a pain.

I'm sorry but these guys are both 1) wonderful people for breathing new life into quality traditional publications, ans 2) truly awful business people.

Theyre basically saying "We're not capable of truthfully communicating accurate information to the people to whom we owe our success (customers) so we're basically not going to talk to them anymore because they're distracting and annoying."

If a real, established publishing ever house ever decided to carve out a new niche for themselves, they would slay these guys.

Good points.  But I think they've hit that stage in their life cycle when they could really benefit from a professional Chief Operations Officer.  Perhaps, if they're going to the Venture Capital well again, they might consider partnering in an equity deal with someone ( ) who can bring sorely lacking operational expertise (e.g., bringing new products to market, supply chain management, business logistics, customer relations, etc.) to the table.

Enough with this amateur hour "Catholic-publishing-is-my-hobby" nonsense  . Just look at the error-plagued 1st printing of the LOBVM, shipment of humidy damaged products, the utter and complete fiasco that was the Breviary launch (NB: How many "pre-order" listed customers still got stiffed, do you think? hundreds?) - and on and on.

I have seen no evidence that these guys have learned anything.   

<== Baronius Press Senior Management Team

I don’t necessarily disagree with some of Allan’s observations but if I may play Devil’s Advocate for a bit …

I don’t know anything about Baronius except they are small.  Having been a solo proprietorship distributor for a biological product for the livestock industry which include providing technical service, covering 13 counties in eastern WA and northern ID, and not having a wife at home to answer the phone and keep the books, and having other friends who have tried their hand at entrepreneurship, I am a bit sympathetic to situations they may have gotten into.  While the breviary project became something of a marathon there were many who came to predict that it would never happen, BUT IT DID.  I remember the critiques here of their earlier editions of the LOBVM (which I’m thinking was printed in India?).  They see to have imposed a laborious (and time consuming) process of proofing with this project, and sourced a new printer in the Philippines.  For a small shop perhaps operating mostly on a cash flow basis just dealing with that type of out sourcing can be tedious as I well know (I had to delay a few projects until I could pre pay inventory costs).

So yeah, consumers can be frustrated.  On the other hand, having been in a similar situation, (a) if one is asked to bid a proposal and  decides not to the prospect gets mad; (b) if one presents a proposal by request but maybe “bit off more than should have been at the moment” the prospect gets mad ~ a damned if you do, damned if you don’t environment.

  If a real, established publishing ever house ever decided to carve out a new niche for themselves, they would slay these guys.  But, none have and I see no indication that any are looking to.

The bottom line is they are providing products of limited market appeal that nobody else is.  From the initial reports they appear to have addressed the quality issues (and I’m very pleased with their pocket edition of the Douay-Rheims New Testament and Psalms).  One can choose to purchase the products they decide to produce, when they are able to make them available, at the price they ask.  In my opinion the only genuine “right” a customer has, AFTER placing an order and making payment, is to receive a product that is as described in a timely manner.

Customers DON’T necessarily have a “right” to demand a company provide a certain product, or that it be available at a certain time, or that it meet certain criteria, or that it be priced at a certain level.  If they don’t like a company’s offering they are free to a) trade elsewhere; b) start their own company and do a better job; c) do without.

In the 37 pages of this thread, and in other threads, there have been several who surmise that they[i/] would know how to do the job better.  YET, none of them have brought a breviary to market, only Baronius has accomplished that.  Credit where credit is do I say.

 

Also all true. 

[Phillipus Iacobus]

I can't believe this thread has dragged on for over a year.

[Ineffable1]

Some points to remember about the long process, in no particular order.

First, there was the long delay in finding someone willing and able to review all of the Latin to ensure it could retain the original imprimatur. That time was out of their hands.

Second, the lengthy time it actually took for the Latin to be reviewed and the official approvals obtained. Again, that was out of their hands.

Third, to their credit, while waiting for the Latin they spent the time going through multiple cycles of proofing, correcting, proofing, correcting, again and again. Each cycle was a time-consuming endeavor for several reasons that could not be avoided.

Fourth, the printing woes and delays was unfortunate to say the least, but could hardly be blamed on them. They went with that new printing company in a best effort to ensure the highest quality possible. From the initial reviews it sounds like they met that goal.

Fifth, in one of my prior lives I was closely involved with international shipping and port customs in the sending and receiving countries. It is a weeks-long process full of delays and frustrations. Can't fault Baronius for that one, either.

There are more I could cite, but you get the idea. In short, yes, much of the multi-year development seemed like constant two steps forward and one back, from the outside perspective. But bear in mind that this is their livelihood. No product then no sales then no income. Add to that that they very much felt the justified wrath of customers of the first editions of the LOBVM, myself included. That placed pressure on them to try to get as cose to perfection as possible. So there is no reason to feel they dragged their feet with the Breviary, nor that this is just a side job for them. They did their level best.

As an aside, I have their Catena Aurea and in my opinion, for whatever it's worth, I frequently refer to it and can highly recommend it.
http://www.baroniuspress.com/book.php?wid=56&bid=53
 

[jovan66102]

I can't believe this thread has dragged on for over a year.

True. However, I was perusing old threads and ran across one from early 2006 where Baronius was quoted as saying the Breviary would be ready by the end of the year, so in a sense, it's been going on for six years!

[Allan]

I can't believe this thread has dragged on for over a year.

True. However, I was perusing old threads and ran across one from early 2006 where Baronius was quoted as saying the Breviary would be ready by the end of the year, so in a sense, it's been going on for six years!

Which raises the question of how long it would take a monk scribe to make a breviary.  A lot faster no doubt!

[Phillipus Iacobus]

Would there be enough sheep for parchment?

[ecclesiastes]

Which raises the question of how long it would take a monk scribe to make a breviary.  A lot faster no doubt!

But then you would have only one breviary. Now you have a few hundred (or thousand? how many copies did they print?).

[Adam Wayne]

Just received an email from Baronius with a UPS tracking number.

Should have it delivered on the Soleminty of St. Joseph, err, I mean the Feast of St. Mark the Evangelist.

Anyone else in the States get word?

[deus_lo_vult]

No tracking info here!  they were supposedly going to start shipping last Friday. We will wait and see.