Stubborn
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« Reply #500 on: July 15, 2011, 07:24:AM » |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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Gregory I
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« Reply #501 on: July 23, 2011, 01:39:AM » |
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You know, I thought of a good way of Phrasing the issue between the BOD'ers and the Feeneyites.
The BOD'ers say that a person who is justified has all he needs to obtain heaven, even if he is justified without baptism.
The Feeneyites say that the Church MIlitant and the Church Triumphant are the same Church. Therefore, if you do not have what it takes to enter into the sacramental life of the church on earth, which sacraments are necessary for our salvation, what makes you think that you are fit to enter into the church triumphant?
Christ said the sacramental seal of water baptism was necessary to be glorified.
Are those who are "Justified" apart from baptism fully equipped for Heaven, according to the words of Christ?
Or is it perhaps actually necessary to come to the marriage feast in the wedding garment that has been washed, as Christ himself declares?
Matthew
Chapter 22
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1 Jesus again in reply spoke to them in parables, saying,
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"The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a king who gave a wedding feast 2 for his son.
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3 He dispatched his servants to summon the invited guests to the feast, but they refused to come.
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A second time he sent other servants, saying, 'Tell those invited: "Behold, I have prepared my banquet, my calves and fattened cattle are killed, and everything is ready; come to the feast."'
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Some ignored the invitation and went away, one to his farm, another to his business.
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The rest laid hold of his servants, mistreated them, and killed them.
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4 The king was enraged and sent his troops, destroyed those murderers, and burned their city.
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Then he said to his servants, 'The feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy to come.
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Go out, therefore, into the main roads and invite to the feast whomever you find.'
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The servants went out into the streets and gathered all they found, bad and good alike, 5 and the hall was filled with guests.
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6 But when the king came in to meet the guests he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment.
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He said to him, 'My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?' But he was reduced to silence.
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7 Then the king said to his attendants, 'Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.'
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Many are invited, but few are chosen."
Compare with:
Rev. 22:14
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
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F.X. Wernz, P. Vidal: “Finally they cannot be numbered among the schismatics, who refuse to obey the Roman Pontiff because they consider his person to be suspect or doubtfully elected on account of rumours in circulation.” (Ius Canonicum, 7:398, 1943)
Rev Ignatius Szal: “Nor is there any schism if one merely transgress a papal law for the reason that one considers it too difficult, or if one refuses obedience inasmuch as one suspects the person of the pope or the validity of his election, or if one resists him as the civil head of a state.” (Communication of Catholics with Schismatics, 1948)
De Lugo: “Neither is someone a schismatic for denying his subjection to the Pontiff on the grounds that he has solidly founded [‘probabiliter’] doubts concerning the legitimacy of his election or his power [refers to Sanchez and Palao].” (Disp., De Virt. Fid. Div., disp xxv, sect iii, nn. 35-8)
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Dominus est
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« Reply #502 on: July 23, 2011, 02:50:AM » |
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So it's ok to be a Feeneyite ?
That's what I'm gathering here.
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J+M+J
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Gregory I
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« Reply #503 on: July 23, 2011, 03:00:AM » |
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I would rather say that as a Catholic, why should I believe that those who are not part of the church militant should be part of the church triumphant? Especially since they are one and the same Mystical body of Christ: The Roman Catholic Church.
If you can't enter into the church down here, how you gonna get in up there?
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F.X. Wernz, P. Vidal: “Finally they cannot be numbered among the schismatics, who refuse to obey the Roman Pontiff because they consider his person to be suspect or doubtfully elected on account of rumours in circulation.” (Ius Canonicum, 7:398, 1943)
Rev Ignatius Szal: “Nor is there any schism if one merely transgress a papal law for the reason that one considers it too difficult, or if one refuses obedience inasmuch as one suspects the person of the pope or the validity of his election, or if one resists him as the civil head of a state.” (Communication of Catholics with Schismatics, 1948)
De Lugo: “Neither is someone a schismatic for denying his subjection to the Pontiff on the grounds that he has solidly founded [‘probabiliter’] doubts concerning the legitimacy of his election or his power [refers to Sanchez and Palao].” (Disp., De Virt. Fid. Div., disp xxv, sect iii, nn. 35-8)
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Stubborn
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« Reply #504 on: July 24, 2011, 06:14:AM » |
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So it's ok to be a Feeneyite ?
That's what I'm gathering here.
Why wouldn't it be ok? Certainly it's ok to be a "Feeneyite" - don't forget that Fr. Feeney only echoed and defended infallible teaching. The smear job that was done to him was the first major slander job of the modernists who resurfaced after Pope St. Pius X sent them scurrying "underground". |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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Stubborn
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« Reply #505 on: July 24, 2011, 06:19:AM » |
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I would rather say that as a Catholic, why should I believe that those who are not part of the church militant should be part of the church triumphant? Especially since they are one and the same Mystical body of Christ: The Roman Catholic Church.
If you can't enter into the church down here, how you gonna get in up there?
Exactly. I have said that a Baptism-of-Desire Catholic is not a member of the Church. He cannot be prayed for after death as one of "the faithful departed." Were he to be revivified immediately after death — were he to come to life again — he would not be allowed to receive Holy Eucharist or any of the other Sacraments until he was baptized by water. Now, if he can get into the Church Triumphant without Baptism of Water, it is strange that he cannot get into the Church Militant without it. It is an odd procedure for priests of the Church Militant to be shunting people off to the Church Triumphant before these people have enrolled in the a Church Militant, which fights the good fight and preserves the Faith. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Fr. Feeney goes on............... Our priests in America now go around preaching this dry substitute of "Baptism of Desire" for the waters of regeneration. Their "Baptism of Desire" is no longer an antecedent to the Baptism of Water to come. They make it a substitute for Baptism of Water, or rather an excuse for not having it. These priests have brought our Church in the United States into a desert, far removed from the life-giving waters of Christ.Like I said - the modernists were resurfacing. |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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UnamSanctam
"I believe, O Lord. Help my unbelief."
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« Reply #506 on: July 24, 2011, 02:55:PM » |
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So it's ok to be a Feeneyite ?
That's what I'm gathering here.
Why wouldn't it be ok? Certainly it's ok to be a "Feeneyite" - don't forget that Fr. Feeney only echoed and defended infallible teaching. The smear job that was done to him was the first major slander job of the modernists who resurfaced after Pope St. Pius X sent them scurrying "underground". +1 Mention modernism in many 'catholic' forums and you will be anathematized. People don't seem to understand just how deep the poison of modernism has spread. |
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"Everything that is not eternal, is nothing"
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Gregory I
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« Reply #507 on: July 24, 2011, 05:45:PM » |
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Yeah, Does anyone here besides me get flagged at CAF? ;D Like, all the time?
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F.X. Wernz, P. Vidal: “Finally they cannot be numbered among the schismatics, who refuse to obey the Roman Pontiff because they consider his person to be suspect or doubtfully elected on account of rumours in circulation.” (Ius Canonicum, 7:398, 1943)
Rev Ignatius Szal: “Nor is there any schism if one merely transgress a papal law for the reason that one considers it too difficult, or if one refuses obedience inasmuch as one suspects the person of the pope or the validity of his election, or if one resists him as the civil head of a state.” (Communication of Catholics with Schismatics, 1948)
De Lugo: “Neither is someone a schismatic for denying his subjection to the Pontiff on the grounds that he has solidly founded [‘probabiliter’] doubts concerning the legitimacy of his election or his power [refers to Sanchez and Palao].” (Disp., De Virt. Fid. Div., disp xxv, sect iii, nn. 35-8)
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UnamSanctam
"I believe, O Lord. Help my unbelief."
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« Reply #508 on: July 24, 2011, 05:59:PM » |
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Yeah, Does anyone here besides me get flagged at CAF? ;D Like, all the time?
I have not joined CAF yet, but probably should. From my external viewing of CAF threads, the forum has virtually been overrun with Liberals and Modernists. Though the site provides some benefit, it is in danger of becoming HAF, that is, Heretic Answers Forum. |
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"Everything that is not eternal, is nothing"
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Gregory I
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« Reply #509 on: July 24, 2011, 06:09:PM » |
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Just a note of caution: If you post in the Traditional FOrum, and if you try to talk about something like LIMBO which should not be that controversial, and say it has the theological status of a common doctrine of the church (Which by the way BOD does too....I think) you get people denying it, saying "The church doesn't teach Limbo." I did a 50 page thread on the Fact that Limbo was BUILT on the Dogmas of the Church, although the DETAILS of limbo are speculation (like location and kind of suffering, etc.) They don't wanna hear it dude. But by all means, give em a whirl. Start a thread on infant damnation and see how long it takes before a mod swoops down on ya!  Oh, and don't call Protestants material heretics. It's name-calling and uncharitable.   |
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F.X. Wernz, P. Vidal: “Finally they cannot be numbered among the schismatics, who refuse to obey the Roman Pontiff because they consider his person to be suspect or doubtfully elected on account of rumours in circulation.” (Ius Canonicum, 7:398, 1943)
Rev Ignatius Szal: “Nor is there any schism if one merely transgress a papal law for the reason that one considers it too difficult, or if one refuses obedience inasmuch as one suspects the person of the pope or the validity of his election, or if one resists him as the civil head of a state.” (Communication of Catholics with Schismatics, 1948)
De Lugo: “Neither is someone a schismatic for denying his subjection to the Pontiff on the grounds that he has solidly founded [‘probabiliter’] doubts concerning the legitimacy of his election or his power [refers to Sanchez and Palao].” (Disp., De Virt. Fid. Div., disp xxv, sect iii, nn. 35-8)
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