Quis

[Vetus Ordo]

Yes, there’s a missing piece in the balance of Catholic wisdom and I’ll attempt to find it. HA! Hahhaha! I was there in 2007 when Vox and Quis made that thread announcing their wedding. I didn’t participate in the thread, I just watched and said nothing. There were many others who watched and said nothing, there were others who enthusiastically offered their congratulations, others who questioned it and even put up an argument, and there were those who actually left Fisheaters because of it. What does that say about those of us who chose to stay? Are we guilty of something too? Do we share in some portion of whatever sin may have been committed? While I agree that leaders should lead by example, I don’t think we should give up on a website or a forum that helps people... and I don’t think we should give up on our friends. Yes, there are gossip mongers out there and they consist mostly of people who LEFT Fisheaters.  I think most of us oldtimers are here because we feel a bond and sense of camaraderie with our traveling companions – even when we don’t always agree – even when we sometimes fall along the way. We are all striving for the same place – heaven – and we just try to stay focused on that and keep our friends and their personal problems in our prayers. 

 

Again, not sure that I understand fully. Maybe what I'm thinking isn't coming out right and that's why the responses have sounded odd to me. I have no intention of giving up on friends or leaving FE. My problem is that for the past few weeks, and especially in one of Vox's previous posts, the one that prompted me to speak up, I have sensed a lot of resentment/anger/accusation towards members or ex-members who disagreed with Vox and Quis and their marriage, as though those in disagreement are terrible people and the only ones to blame for the bad blood; and I'm saying that even given the benefit of the doubt, the Church still teaches that we must avoid occasions of sin and the appearance of sin. From that point of view, which seems very swept under the rug and that's the part I don't understand, they truly can't hold resentment against anyone who disagreed or had/has an issue with it. Vox says she doesn't blame anyone and expected it but then continues to speak of them as though they are dirty-minded gossips. You don't have to be dirty-minded or a gossip to acknowledge that two people living together without the sacrament of marriage is unorthodox for trads, even if they're living as chastely as the Holy Family, it doesn't matter. The appearance in itself is wrong. Perhaps if there are extenuating circumstances, matters of life and death, then it would have to be compromised. And that may be the case here, I don't know, but I'm more than willing to admit it's possible. But what I was looking for with bringing in that perspective, was rather than shifting blame to everyone else being terrible for acknowledging how unorthodox the situation was, that some admission be made that it's perfectly possible to disagree while still being a true friend and having their best interest and friendship at heart as well as an appreciation for the forum.

This.

[StrictCatholicGirl]

What is the solution? Ask folks for updates on the status of their living arrangments? I guess I don't understand and I'm sorry I brought it up. My regrets.

[wallflower]

What is the solution? Ask folks for updates on the status of their living arrangments? I guess I don't understand and I'm sorry I brought it up. My regrets.

No, but that was part of my point, that no one asked to know these things, so we can't be treated as though we are busybodies sniffing around for everyone's personal confessions. I would have preferred not to know to be honest. But I believe that Satan is here and he will find weak spots and try to pry them open and I won't allow him to succeed where I'm concerned. In other words, although it's a serious subject, I haven't let it change my appreciation for the forum or even Vox and Quis. The solution really is as you said above that we stick together even when we disagree, show respect for both sides of this, and realize we are all aiming for the same place.

[VoxClamantis]

I don't think I've disparaged those with questions (though I wouldn't answer them). I do, though take issue with those who assume a lot ("fornicators!", for ex.), don't assume the best, gossip, or slam the entire website because the person who wrote it could be (?) a sinner (like everyone else reading it). I've never banned anyone for asking questions, for ex. (BTWm there is someone on another forum -- initials M. S. -- who thinks he was banned by Quis for making comments and such about the "marriage"; he wasn't. He was  banned for something he said in an entirely different thread at about the same time).

[Iolanthe]

I used to be on fisheaters under a different name around 2006-2007, before Quis and Vox's marriage. I left for a while and when I came back about two years ago I was very surprised to find that they were married, and I wondered if I had just misunderstood their circumstances when I had been on here previously. I asked another member about it in a pm and she explained very simply about their getting married and that at the time there had been some controversy and some members had left. I was still a little curious about the whole thing but decided that it wasn't my business and that I had no right to assume anything other than that they had spoken to a priest about it and that everything was fine. Then I stopped thinking about it. I never felt scandalized and never thought I had a right to know the details of their marriage or personal lives. I'm not their priest, and issues with marriages, annulments, and families can be extremely complicated and certainly not something that strangers on an internet forum have any right to speculate about. People aren't obliged to give every last detail about their lives in order to avoid any chance of scandal, and some people--not naming names but uh yeah that other forum--absolutely thrive on drama and will never lose an opportunity to point fingers and spread gossip. It's petty, sad, and totally lacking in charity.

[Jacafamala]

I used to be on fisheaters under a different name around 2006-2007, before Quis and Vox's marriage. I left for a while and when I came back about two years ago I was very surprised to find that they were married, and I wondered if I had just misunderstood their circumstances when I had been on here previously. I asked another member about it in a pm and she explained very simply about their getting married and that at the time there had been some controversy and some members had left. I was still a little curious about the whole thing but decided that it wasn't my business and that I had no right to assume anything other than that they had spoken to a priest about it and that everything was fine. Then I stopped thinking about it. I never felt scandalized and never thought I had a right to know the details of their marriage or personal lives. I'm not their priest, and issues with marriages, annulments, and families can be extremely complicated and certainly not something that strangers on an internet forum have any right to speculate about. People aren't obliged to give every last detail about their lives in order to avoid any chance of scandal, and some people--not naming names but uh yeah that other forum--absolutely thrive on drama and will never lose an opportunity to point fingers and spread gossip. It's petty, sad, and totally lacking in charity.

This is the voice of reason. Now let's drop it, shall we?

[JoeVoxxPop]

I used to be on fisheaters under a different name around 2006-2007, before Quis and Vox's marriage. I left for a while and when I came back about two years ago I was very surprised to find that they were married, and I wondered if I had just misunderstood their circumstances when I had been on here previously. I asked another member about it in a pm and she explained very simply about their getting married and that at the time there had been some controversy and some members had left. I was still a little curious about the whole thing but decided that it wasn't my business and that I had no right to assume anything other than that they had spoken to a priest about it and that everything was fine. Then I stopped thinking about it. I never felt scandalized and never thought I had a right to know the details of their marriage or personal lives. I'm not their priest, and issues with marriages, annulments, and families can be extremely complicated and certainly not something that strangers on an internet forum have any right to speculate about. People aren't obliged to give every last detail about their lives in order to avoid any chance of scandal, and some people--not naming names but uh yeah that other forum--absolutely thrive on drama and will never lose an opportunity to point fingers and spread gossip. It's petty, sad, and totally lacking in charity.

This is the voice of reason. Now let's drop it, shall we?

[wallflower]

Jacafamala, I appreciate lolanthe's statement too but I don't believe anything said so far has been so unreasonable as to evoke your comment. This is exactly what I'm asking for that the oldies for whom this is old, old news have a little respect for those for whom it's new or even other oldies for whom it's not so black and white. There are multiple aspects to this and I happen to be someone who is detail-oriented and analytical, even when I'm the one in the hotseat. It's not something I save for others alone and it's not based in wanting to be judgemental, it's just the way I tick. Sometimes it's a strength, sometimes it's a handicap, I'll admit, but it's not necessarily unreasonable. If the comment was in general and not necessarily for me, I'm sure the above applies to many here, not just me.

Thanks Vox for reassuring that you are not disparaging to those who go about their doubts/questions in a more respectful manner. I agree that using it to bash the entire forum is not the answer and I've spoken up against that multiple times. But I also understand that there's a lot of history that I'm not privy to. I'm sure most are doing what they believe is best. 

[FHM310]

Again, not sure that I understand fully. Maybe what I'm thinking isn't coming out right and that's why the responses have sounded odd to me. I have no intention of giving up on friends or leaving FE. My problem is that for the past few weeks, and especially in one of Vox's previous posts, the one that prompted me to speak up, I have sensed a lot of resentment/anger/accusation towards members or ex-members who disagreed with Vox and Quis and their marriage, as though those in disagreement are terrible people and the only ones to blame for the bad blood; and I'm saying that even given the benefit of the doubt, the Church still teaches that we must avoid occasions of sin and the appearance of sin. From that point of view, which seems very swept under the rug and that's the part I don't understand, they truly can't hold resentment against anyone who disagreed or had/has an issue with it. Vox says she doesn't blame anyone and expected it but then continues to speak of them as though they are dirty-minded gossips. You don't have to be dirty-minded or a gossip to acknowledge that two people living together without the sacrament of marriage is unorthodox for trads, even if they're living as chastely as the Holy Family, it doesn't matter. The appearance in itself is wrong. Perhaps if there are extenuating circumstances, matters of life and death, then it would have to be compromised. And that may be the case here, I don't know, but I'm more than willing to admit it's possible. But what I was looking for with bringing in that perspective, was rather than shifting blame to everyone else being terrible for acknowledging how unorthodox the situation was, that some admission be made that it's perfectly possible to disagree while still being a true friend and having their best interest and friendship at heart as well as an appreciation for the forum.

This.

Yes.  I get what wallfower is trying to say. 

[Walty]

I used to be on fisheaters under a different name around 2006-2007, before Quis and Vox's marriage. I left for a while and when I came back about two years ago I was very surprised to find that they were married, and I wondered if I had just misunderstood their circumstances when I had been on here previously. I asked another member about it in a pm and she explained very simply about their getting married and that at the time there had been some controversy and some members had left. I was still a little curious about the whole thing but decided that it wasn't my business and that I had no right to assume anything other than that they had spoken to a priest about it and that everything was fine. Then I stopped thinking about it. I never felt scandalized and never thought I had a right to know the details of their marriage or personal lives. I'm not their priest, and issues with marriages, annulments, and families can be extremely complicated and certainly not something that strangers on an internet forum have any right to speculate about. People aren't obliged to give every last detail about their lives in order to avoid any chance of scandal, and some people--not naming names but uh yeah that other forum--absolutely thrive on drama and will never lose an opportunity to point fingers and spread gossip. It's petty, sad, and totally lacking in charity.

This.