Resurrexi
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« on: September 11, 2011, 12:17:PM » |
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If "Blessed" John Paul II can do it with with half-naked women, so can ayone else.
I don't like JP2 anymore than you probably do, but he's a beatus nonetheless. It lacks prudence to question the validity of his beatification, which was proclaimed by the pope according to the traditional formula. Of course. *buries head in the sand* Do you question that Benedict is pope? Or do you question the authority of the pope in general to beatify? Or do you question the authority of Pope Benedict specifically to beatify? Or do you simply question the validity of the action of beatifying John Paul II? I'm trying to understand your logic. |
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Vita brevis breviter in brevi finietur,
Mors venit velociter quae neminem veretur,
Omnia mors perimit et nulli miseretur.
Ad mortem festinamus; peccare desistamus.
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2011, 12:23:PM » |
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I'll re-post my answer: Logic? Precisely.
You guys boast of Christianity being a religion that is not contrary to reason, a religion that believes in the eternal logos, etc., and rightfully so. But when faced with things like John Paul II getting away with murder and being beatified on top of it, many of you will just bury your heads in the sand and repeat ad nauseam: "if the pope said so or did so then it must be so," etc.
So much for logic and reason, right?
My quip is simple: if John Paul II is really "blessed," then most of us will be just fine. Don't worry too much. In fact, it's a liberating thought.
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Resurrexi
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2011, 01:03:PM » |
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You didn't answer any of my questions.
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Vita brevis breviter in brevi finietur,
Mors venit velociter quae neminem veretur,
Omnia mors perimit et nulli miseretur.
Ad mortem festinamus; peccare desistamus.
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Laetare
Christus est natus
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Nox praecessit
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2011, 01:43:PM » |
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You didn't answer any of my questions.
Friend, there seems to be a lot of crankery going on at Fisheaters over the Church hierarchy. It can get taxing...  |
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2011, 05:03:PM » |
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You didn't answer any of my questions.
Since you dismissed what I tried to convey in my last post - which was the important part - I'll answer your points: 1) Do you question that Benedict is pope?
2) Or do you question the authority of the pope in general to beatify?
3) Or do you question the authority of Pope Benedict specifically to beatify?
4) Or do you simply question the validity of the action of beatifying John Paul II?
1) I have my doubts, yes. 2) Not really, although beatifications aren't infallible; 3) Not really; 4) Certainly, there's no possible excuse to justify the beatification of people like John Paul II. |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Dominus est
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2011, 10:11:PM » |
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What about the miracle ?
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J+M+J
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jovan66102
La foi Catholique d'abord! La mort à l'Islam!
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2011, 10:18:PM » |
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What about the miracle ?
IIRC, there have already been serious doubts raised about its veracity. Of course, no one in Rome cared! Santo subito!  |
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Jovan-Marya Weismiller, T.O.Carm.
Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
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FHM310
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2011, 02:16:PM » |
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I'll re-post my answer: Logic? Precisely.
You guys boast of Christianity being a religion that is not contrary to reason, a religion that believes in the eternal logos, etc., and rightfully so. But when faced with things like John Paul II getting away with murder and being beatified on top of it, many of you will just bury your heads in the sand and repeat ad nauseam: "if the pope said so or did so then it must be so," etc.
So much for logic and reason, right?
My quip is simple: if John Paul II is really "blessed," then most of us will be just fine. Don't worry too much. In fact, it's a liberating thought.
This. I think Chris Ferrara & Tom Woods made the point in the book, "The Great Façade" that if no matter what the Pope does & says he is right & good because he's Pope, then how can any Pope be considered "Great"? How can a pope be holy or not, great or not, etc.., if everything they do is necessarily good because inspired by the Holy Ghost? |
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Old Salt
Yep.
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Sancta Dei Genitrix Ora Pro Nobis.
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2011, 02:34:PM » |
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If the Church declared Pope John Paul II as Blessed, then as far as we know he is a Blessed.
There is the chance that he is not, but it is not up to us to say he is not for sure.
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Don't forget to pray for the dead.
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cunctas_haereses
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2011, 02:42:PM » |
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That's like saying that everything the President does is fine and legal, because he holds the office. Actually, that's pretty much how it goes with the office these last, oh, 100+ years or so.
Just because you're the Pope doesn't mean you can't do bad things, unholy things, sinful things. The 'Holy Ghost' card isn't a free pass for anything goes. The charism of infallibility is quite narrow.
As far as JPII is concerned, he's either 'in' which means the Catholic rulebook has been thrown out, or beatifications are fallible and he's really 'out'.
What a mess. And JP had no small part in creating and growing this mess.
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Heaven is a REWARD, not a RIGHT.
Every truly pagan society has, at it's core, some form of human sacrifice. In today's world, it's abortion.
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