UK District Superior states there will be no regularization

[Meg]

You didn't answer my question about how my complaining about the Holy Father would achieve anything.

Because your silence is consent to the way things are. And leaving the Holy Father to do it all alone or continue in his errors is beyond cruel. 

It isn't realistic to use St. Catherine as an example. I'm no saint - as St. Catherine of Sienna was,

In that case, become one.  You have a choice, become a saint or burn in hell forever. There is no middle option. 

and besides, she was completely out of line in her admonishment of the Pope (okay - I can't remember his name just now),  after she had talked him into going back to Rome from Avingnon, she gave him a hard time because he wasn't properly dealing with the HUGE problems there. And guess what? He never did deal effectively with the problems. So she was wrong to place her faith in him. But the Church survived, as it always does.

On one hand, you say you place no faith in the Pope, but on the other hand anyone who wants the Pope to do his job is wrong by asking him to do his job and rebuking him when he doesn't.  And St. Catherine did nothing wrong in rebuking the Pope. His failures are not her failures. Her failure to rebuke him would have been exactly that, her failure. 

Pope St Pius X was weak in that he did not get rid of all the modernists. He left many in place for his successors to have to deal with. He was saintly, but he wasn't perfect.

Oh to have the "weakness" and imperfections of St. Pius X in a Pope today. 

So you are willing to complain about a Pope as long as he's dead. Is that right?  You just don't think it's useful to complain about a Pope that's alive.  That's not really charitable is it? 

Would you say Pope St. Pius X is a superior Pope to Paul VI or JPII or BXVI? 

The SSPX will continue to complain and complain and complain.

What's wrong with that? You write as if there is nothing to complain about.  There is plenty to complain about.  Being simply a "Catholic" with canonical recognition can send one to Hell as easily as being a Satanist will, if you allow pride and presumption to take you down. 

  They will continue to throw verbal stones from the outskirts of the Church toward Rome, as they have always done, and then they will complain, too, that they are 'victims.'

They are not victims, except of their own making.

As was Our Lord. Evil people who were God's own appointed religious leaders made Our Lord into a Divine Victim which he used for the salvation of souls.  The parallel is astounding with the SSPX when you think of it.  JPII was just like Caiaphas in a lot of ways.  More concerned about politics and immoral decisions than professing the truth.  External unity vs. actual unity of faith, whited sepulchres all clean on the outside but on the inside full of corruption and dead mens' bones. 

There are many good priests in the SSPX who would gladly work for the salvation of souls within the visible structure of the Catholic church. I hope that they will leave the SSPX for this purpose.

Because there is no crisis of faith in your eyes and the Popes are perfect except the Popes that actually try to solve problems.  A do-nothing Pope and canonical regularity is your remedy for any crisis in the Church it seems. 

Maybe if the Pope was concerned with working for the salvation of souls both within and outside the Church, the atmosphere in the Church would be conducive to priests of the SSPX to be regularized and their enemies, who are canonically regular would be shown the door by the Pope or leave by their own volition.

Your post here is not rational, so I don't see any purpose in responding to it, except to say that Pope Benedict XVl is working for the salvation of souls. You just refuse to see it.

[Titus Alba]

How do you know that the gates of Hell prevail over the majority of the people? Are you personally in contact with the 'majority of the people?'

There’s “knowing” and then there’s “knowing”, ya know?  I have two words for you: diabolical disorientation.
In my own experience it is so rare to meet Catholics who actually know and believe what the Church teaches that it actually hasn’t ever happened except once or twice.  Ya, I realize that’s not the “majority”, but neither is a CNN poll that takes small samples.  If I were polling self-proclaimed Catholics and asking them to state and affirm Catholic teaching I would not be surprised if the number was below 1% because that is my personal experience with Catholics thus far.  Maybe it’s better in your locale.  What, maybe 5%?  10%?  Remember, a majority is more than 50%

Regarding who knows what the Church teaches anymore, we have the catechism. No one should ever look to the Mass, or sermons, to provide all of the teachings of the Church. It is incumbent upon Catholics to read the catechism. Truth is there, even if you don't want to believe it.

My point was that for most of history it’s been a minority that actually read or have any sort of formal catechesis.  One’s station and ability to learn also impacted this.  That’s where the Mass comes in; it’s the common denominator.

The Church has not abandoned the SSPX.

The Church has abandoned the SSPX.  The proof is that they could fix this problem tonight but have chosen to hang the SSPX out the window for decades.

Summorum Pontificum was provided, the excomms against the SSPX bishops were lifted, and Rome has taken the time to engage in doctrinal discussions with the SSPX. How can you say in all honesty that Rome has abandoned them?

The SSPX has simply asked for justice.  Miracle of miracles, it has happened on occasion.  These things wouldn’t have been done without the persistence of the SSPX.  And finally, now that the “doctrinal” talks are over, we are still at square one: Rome refused to talk doctrine.

Our Pope is the Pope of Christian unity. He wants the SSPX back into the fold, just as he wants Anglicans, Lutherans and Orthodox back. One of the main jobs or functions of a Pope is to work hard at unity. A lot of traditionalists seem to be unaware of this aspect of the papacy.

I believe he wants what some might consider unity (i.e. something that looks unified but isn’t, like a conglomerate rock).  But if he wanted true unity the first thing he would do is to clarify or scrap everything from VII.

[SouthpawLink]

Your post here is not rational, so I don't see any purpose in responding to it, except to say that Pope Benedict XVl is working for the salvation of souls. You just refuse to see it.

How, by telling heretics, Jews and pagans to stay where they are (i.e. don't bother converting to Catholicism) and to continue practicing their false religions, in the pursuit of some humanist conception of peace?  Because that happened just last week.

[ggreg]

If this is true and Bishop Fellay will not accept either the "Rolls Royce" situation or sign the Preamble then I wonder what will happen in 10 years when the SSPX wants to consecrate new bishops?
Will the consecrators be excommunicated all over again?
What a ridiculous game!

The Holy Father should just declare the suspensions lifted [unjust or just] and let the Society operate the way they are now.
This is no skin off anyones nose [since they will do so anyhow] but they will have faculties for confessions and marriages.

He cannot do that.  The SSPX would constantly be exposing error, fraud, sacrilege, blasphemy within the Church.  Like just about every week they'd be protesting some new openly homo bishop, or sex crime, or mud-wrestling mass.  How can B16 pray with the Jews and tell them "all the old differences are forgotten and we can all be friends and work towards building a humanist utopia here on earth" (which is what he tells them), if the SSPX are constantly telling the Jews they are perfidious, God-Killing reprobates who have been cursed for the last 2000 years?

That is like having Harry Markopolos go and work at Madoff Securities, 11 years ago, hoping that somehow they will just get along.  It is like putting salt on ice (or slugs).  It ain't gonna work.  The truth is going to burn these Vaticanists and they know it.

A house divided against itself cannot stand.  If the SSPX could survive and thrive within the Church then there would be no crisis.  They'd either cause a lot of trouble (good trouble but trouble nonetheless), or they'd be broken up by Machiavellian methods.  If they cannot survive and thrive then what is the point of rejoining.

Waste of time from the very start.

Although I agree with much of what you say - the Jews have not been cursed for 2000 years.  Their privilege ended in AD 70, and so did their curse because that is when the Jewish people were no more.  As Scripture clearly states, the treatment of their Messiah was upon them and their children.  It was that one generation that was cursed - and that cursed ended when Jesus came as Judge upon Jerusalem in AD 70, dealing vengeance "upon those who had pierced him" as Revelation states.

The "Jews" today are nothing but an empty title - a people holding an empty religion.  There is no more Jew or Gentile, only Christian and non-Christian.  Jews have the same opportunity as anyone else does to be grafted to the tree, all they have to do is seek God with an open heart and mind and accept the Gospel of Christ's Church - its the same deal with everyone.

I was exaggerating to make the point.  The SSPX don't believe, nor will they act, like the Jews are "our elder brothers in the faith".

So the new religion cannot absorb them.

And that is why I knew a deal would never happen.

[NeelyAnn]

My dear brethren

The meeting of the Society’s superiors took place at Albano on 7-8th October as announced in last month’s newsletter, and Bishop Fellay did indeed use this opportunity to discuss the ‘Doctrinal Preamble’ text as received from Cardinal Levada on 14th September.

The first day of the meeting covered three issues: an overview of the contacts with Rome since 1987; a summary of the doctrinal discussions; and an oral exposition of the Doctrinal Preamble document itself.

With regard to the doctrinal talks it was disappointing to note that the Roman commission failed to acknowledge the break between traditional and conciliar teachings. Instead it insisted upon the ‘hermeneutic (interpretation) of continuity,’ stating that the new teachings included and improved the old!

It was interesting to learn that the 14th September meeting had not touched upon the doctrinal talks at all, but rather was dedicated to expounding possible practical solutions for the Society.

So it was perhaps not surprising to learn that the proposed doctrinal basis for any canonical agreement in fact contained all those elements which the Society has consistently rejected, including acceptance of the New Mass and of Vatican II as expressed in the New Catechism. Indeed, the document itself conveys the impression that there is no crisis in the Church...

Hence the stated consensus of those in attendance was that the Doctrinal Preamble was clearly unacceptable and that the time has certainly not come to pursue any practical agreement as long as the doctrinal issues remain outstanding. It also agreed that the Society should continue its work of insisting upon the doctrinal questions in any contacts with the Roman authorities.

In many ways we can see the hand of Providence in this meeting, falling as it did on the Feast of the Holy Rosary, given the clarification of Rome’s persistence in the modern errors, and the consequent necessity of continuing with the fight against modernism through fidelity to Catholic Tradition.


http://www.sspx.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=390:district-superiors-letter-november-2011&catid=114:district-superiors-letter&Itemid=86

For the record, Rorate Caeli posted this information and quickly pulled the entire thing.  It is unlikely they would have pulled it without good reason.

Afterwards, the article was removed from the SSPX Great Britain's news section but was still able to be found in the form of a pdf version of the Nov. Newsletter.  That newsletter has since ben removed from their website too.

Now Angelqueen appears to have removed their thread on this topic.

No doubt Fr. Morgan wrote this.  However, it does not appear to be official in anyway. 

[karyn_anne]

Not much use pulling that news off the internet....its all over this forum now. 

[Someone1776]

Not much use pulling that news off the internet....its all over this forum now. 

As I said in another thread the SSPX seems to be in a crisis of the first order. These leaks are not professional and betray divisions within the society.

[NeelyAnn]

New update posted on Rorate Caeli:

Communiqué of the General House of the Society of St. Pius X

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/11/communique-of-general-house-of-society.html

Following the meeting of the Superiors of the Seminaries and Districts of the Society of Saint Pius X in Albano (Italy), on October 7, 2011, several comments have appeared in the press on the response Bishop Bernard Fellay [Superior General of the Society] would give to the Roman proposals of September 14, 2011. It is recalled that only the General House of the Society of Saint Pius X is entitled to make public an official communiqué or authorized commentary on this matter. Until further notice, reference should be made to the communiqué of October 7, 2011. (DICI of Nov. 2, 2011) [Original language: French]

[Meg]

Not much use pulling that news off the internet....its all over this forum now. 

As I said in another thread the SSPX seems to be in a crisis of the first order. These leaks are not professional and betray divisions within the society.

I agree. Recently it was the letter that Bp. Fellay wrote to Bp. Willaimson that caused problems, and now this. Both having to do with the "Anglo-saxon" SSPX contingent in the UK.

[Old Salt]

The SSPX appears to be falling apart.