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Author Topic: Orthodoxy and Trinity  (Read 1379 times)
drummerboy
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« on: November 01, 2011, 12:43:PM »

I know the Orthodox church's believe God the Father is "most supreme" in the Trinity.  But if Christ and the Holy Spirit are not as supreme, wouldn't that ultimately mean they are not God because you cannot have two persons of the Trinity being unequal and yet God.  That would almost make them two lesser gods.  This doesn't make any sense to me Huh?
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Someone1776
"The Derailer"
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 12:54:PM »

I know the Orthodox church's believe God the Father is "most supreme" in the Trinity. 

I don't think you know what you are talking about. The Orthodox are not Arians!
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drummerboy
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 03:31:PM »

That's what I figured.  Then what do the Orthodox believe in regard to the Trinity.
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Someone1776
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 03:43:PM »

That's what I figured.  Then what do the Orthodox believe in regard to the Trinity.

The same as we do. We've just had a really stupid argument on how to express it in the creed. The Eastern Rite churches recite the creed as the Orthodox do. The Orthodox claim the way the Western Church recites the creed makes Christ greater than the father.

It is a really dumb debate. We believe the same thing.
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"Christianity lies in achieving greatness in the face of the world's hatred." - Saint Ignatius of Antioch
Melkite
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 03:49:PM »

That's what I figured.  Then what do the Orthodox believe in regard to the Trinity.

The same as we do. We've just had a really stupid argument on how to express it in the creed. The Eastern Rite churches recite the creed as the Orthodox do. The Orthodox claim the way the Western Church recites the creed makes Christ greater than the father.

It is a really dumb debate. We believe the same thing.

Not greater than the Father, greater than the Spirit.  Orthodoxy emphasized the monarchy of the Father.  The Orthodox believe the Catholic teaching makes Christ equal to the Father in that monarchy, where the Father and Son are equal and blended to the point of confusion, and the Spirit is less.  Kind of like arianism, but the two person are more divine than the third, rather than one person being more divine than the other two.
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Mithrandylan
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 03:51:PM »

That's what I figured.  Then what do the Orthodox believe in regard to the Trinity.

The same as we do. We've just had a really stupid argument on how to express it in the creed. The Eastern Rite churches recite the creed as the Orthodox do. The Orthodox claim the way the Western Church recites the creed makes Christ greater than the father.

It is a really dumb debate. We believe the same thing.

Not greater than the Father, greater than the Spirit.  Orthodoxy emphasized the monarchy of the Father.  The Orthodox believe the Catholic teaching makes Christ equal to the Father in that monarchy, where the Father and Son are equal and blended to the point of confusion, and the Spirit is less.  Kind of like arianism, but the two person are more divine than the third, rather than one person being more divine than the other two.

All three are blended to "the point of confusion" as you put it.  It's the ultimate mystery of faith, one we will never understand even in Heaven.  They are three persons, equal as One God.
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Melkite
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 04:26:PM »

All three are blended to "the point of confusion" as you put it.  It's the ultimate mystery of faith, one we will never understand even in Heaven.  They are three persons, equal as One God.

That would be Sabellianism.  If they were blended to the point of confusion, you wouldn't be able to recognize three persons within it, which is the foundation of the Orthodox objection.
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newyorkcatholic
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2011, 07:44:AM »


All three are blended to "the point of confusion" as you put it.  It's the ultimate mystery of faith, one we will never understand even in Heaven.  They are three persons, equal as One God.

No, the three hypostases are not blended, they are definitely distinct.  So says the Athanasian Creed, and so says the Preface of the Holy Trinity.

They are only "blended" in a very very loose sense reflecting our limited understanding, but they are not actually blended.  Equal, but distinct.
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spasiisochrani
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2011, 02:12:PM »

I know the Orthodox church's believe God the Father is "most supreme" in the Trinity. 

Certainly not "most supreme", but entirely equal.  However, the Father is the origin of the Trinity (although not first in time; the three Persons are coeternal) in that the Father begets the Son and "spirates" (through the Son) the Holy Spirit. 

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PCCUFILQ.HTM
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Arun
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2011, 04:06:AM »

ahhh.

i like how st giuseppe di cupertino folded the blanket. that'll do me jsut fine...
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