aquinasg
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« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2011, 01:40:AM » |
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If the state should not surpress a heresy because of the consequences, then the state doesn't seem to have the right to surpress and the no-Catholics would then have a right to be tolerated.
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INPEFESS
Please remember me in your rosary intentions.
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† "If anyone love Me, he will keep My word." †
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« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2011, 01:53:AM » |
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If the state should not surpress a heresy because of the consequences, then the state doesn't seem to have the right to surpress and the no-Catholics would then have a right to be tolerated.
 It sounds like you are really straining to justify this document and force it to conform to traditional Catholic teaching. If Johnny steals from Jane, and I choose not to reprimand Johnny in front of Jane, that doesn't mean he has a right not to be reprimanded in front of Jane. It simply means that I have chosen that action for some greater good--say, so that Jane won't laugh at him or feel superior to him. It doesn't mean that justice gives him some inalienable right to not be reprimanded in front of Jane. That is my choice so as to (presumably) bring about a greater good, not his right. |
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I n N omine P atris, E t F ilii, E t S piritus S ancti "The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative magisterium" (Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum, no. 9, June 29, 1896). “Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time” (2 Peter 1:10).
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aquinasg
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« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2011, 04:47:PM » |
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In the case of religious liberty, the non-Catholics have that right from their nature which requires freedom in order to find the truth. This right is in the service of truth, not error, as the Council explained. If reprimanding Johnny in front of Jane would be hurtful to Johnny, than he may well have a right not to be corrected thusly
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aquinasg
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« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2011, 04:48:PM » |
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Nor do you have the right to dissent from continual Church teaching
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PeterII
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« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2011, 05:29:PM » |
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Nor do you have the right to dissent from continual Church teaching
In the case of religious liberty, the non-Catholics have that right from their nature which requires freedom in order to find the truth. This right is in the service of truth, not error, as the Council explained. If reprimanding Johnny in front of Jane would be hurtful to Johnny, than he may well have a right not to be corrected thusly
The right to practice error in the service of truth? I guess the Church forgot to mention that to the state when it was handing over heretics to be punished throughout history. |
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The hope only
Of empty men.
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aquinasg
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« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2011, 05:44:PM » |
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Heretics were a thread to public order in those days, so they were rightly punished according to the doctrine of Vatican II. And I didn't say their errors serve truth. Their freedom is needed in order for them to find truth, but since we are social beings, social needs trump individual rights
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PeterII
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« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2011, 06:09:PM » |
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Heretics were a thread to public order in those days, so they were rightly punished according to the doctrine of Vatican II. And I didn't say their errors serve truth. Their freedom is needed in order for them to find truth, but since we are social beings, social needs trump individual rights
How do you measure public order? |
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The hope only
Of empty men.
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2011, 06:52:PM » |
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Heretics were a thread to public order in those days, so they were rightly punished according to the doctrine of Vatican II. Wait! Have I woken in twilight zone? |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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aquinasg
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« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2011, 07:24:PM » |
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It depends on what is good for society
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JMartyr
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« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2011, 07:54:PM » |
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It depends on what is good for society
Is spreading soul killing error good for society? |
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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